Minorities living in Idaho, How is it??? (Boise, Pocatello: houses, buy)

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Trace_Rinaldi

Here we go again... Mark Furhman, an "avowed racist"? Really?...
Thats rediculous. Also to ASSume retired So Cal cops are racist is ignorant and offensive.

Right-O! The media is a harbinger of 1-dimensional perspective. If something can go to the extreme, especially an anti-intellectual extreme, they grab on to it. When I was younger, I thought this was a reflection of a shallow society, but the more I get a load of opinion from people, the more I realize that the channel that angers the most reasonable individuals will get the best viewing, because people like to get stirred up. Extremism, paranoia, and reactionism are very lucrative for the media. Those who know their history and economics will say "duh" to that, and kudos if I am just preaching to the choir on that one.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Yup. For those not famiiar with racial friction in urban areas...the more diverse an area, the more the friction, from my experience.

The WORST racial tensions I ever saw were in the North Long Beach and Compton/Firestone/Lynwood areas where it was about equal thirds black, hispanic, and asian (mostly Korean or Chinese). I actually felt that areas like Watts (black), Boyle Heights/City Terrace (hispanic), and Monterey Park (asian) were LIGHT YEARS more peaceful by comparison...

And in LA County Men's Central Jail ("MCJ") where I worked a few years as a new LASO Deputy, the riots were always "black on brown" with whites and asians staying out of it. And most of these riots started over whose turn it was to use the pay phones. I'd say 90% of our riots started in the yards at the phone areas. And when I was on our county-wide response team, the high school riots were often black vs brown for about the same trigger-point reasons....

So for a black or hispanic person who moves to North Idaho and resolves to just fit in like the rest of us who move here and assimilate, there's quite literally ZERO racial tension, since retired cops like me (I'm 6'3", 240lbs) and my buddies here in town will defend them if someone were to start giving them grief for being of another race since that just ain't right...we just don't roll that way here....

Then again, if someone comes up here ACTING like a "gangsta", they're going to likely get run out of town or at least shunned everywhere they go by anyone expect maybe a handful of dopey wannabes that every small town has present...again, people just don't put up with it...

Here in NM, it's something I had never even considered in Idaho. The friction here is between Mexicans, Spanish, and Native Americans (I hadn't even heard of Mexicans resenting the Hispanic label until here). So I definitely relate to what you're saying. I called it "reverse racism" when I got here, and had a wise friend pull me aside and clarify that it's all racism, there is no reverse.

The whole ordeal here definitely has historical basis, but as usual most people have learned to put that aside (if we wanted to whine about ownership and conquest, it could go on and on), and the minority who still hold those grudges for whatever reason (usually an inability to do something of their own for society, so they have to stay angry at superficial labels to maintain an identity of significant cause) just make a big display for the media. Once it gets broadcast, everyone just gets a confirmation that "those people still hate each other". Sad, but lessons from judgments about Idaho made me more open to the complexity and misrepresentation of "racial issues" here. All in all, everyone hopes idiots won't speak for my group or other groups, but idiots have a way of drawing attention to themselves, and don't need much more than ridiculous means to grab a spotlight.

And I wish people had followed the nerve to shut down "gangstas" here in Albuquerque in the South Valley. Yup, here we have Idaho, where officers aren't the only ones who return fire. Most "gangstas", especially that wannabe variety with so much to prove (real gangstas actually mind their own business until you're in it), aren't accustomed to return fire.

[stingraynm]

And to the OP, I had four half Mexican friends, one half Native, in Idaho. And the half Native was married to a first generation Indian I met through the engineering college and service sector in Moscow, ID during college. (That fellow introduced me to his native cooking and some Thai techniques, and it's impossible to go a week without grabbing one of his recipes.) In fact, even here in the land of green chiles, I still covet the dragon peppers when I can find them.

But as usual, I digress... my sister was an athletic scholarship and tended to date athletes, who just happened to mostly be African American. (Anyone lookin' for fightin' words, consider this the lantern of the angler fish [from a stingray]. You will insult neither my kin nor what just happens to be true.) Fact is, she did say it was an interesting learning experience, hence the reason I mentioned that minorities will get some glances. She did note that it amounted more from novelty than contention, though, and that's why nothing ever came of it.

Between the folks she knew and the folks I knew, the unanimous experience they relayed was the occasional harsh comment from a drunk (my Indian friend actually got attacked in an alley after 9/11 and called a slur referencing a particular hat style, shall I say), but for the most part nothing ever amounted to much in years of interaction with locals. And where aren't you going to get attacked by a shallow drunk if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I'd say from vicarious experience that the race issue in Idaho is no worse than it is anywhere in this country.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

I personally would appreciate it if in arguing against stereotypes one didn't use stereotypes. I lived in SF for over 10 years, went to university there, and spent time in just about every neighborhood, including regularly doing my grocery shopping at markets in Chinatown, and living across the street from public housing projects in a traditionally black neighborhood as it began to become gentrified by many oblivious whites, and I never experienced anything like "whites not welcome."

If one is to engage in a legitimately serious discussion of this issue it would be advisable to first acquire a firm comprehension of the difference between racism and prejudice, as well as an understanding of how racism gets played out amongst populations which are not even necessarily racist but which find themselves contending for too few or inadequately distributed resources. It's pretty hard to oppress when you don't have any power.

She lived there over 40 years. Maybe you're just lucky.

If you imply that Asians have no power in SF, you're far off base.

Thanks for the lecture, though.

[pimit2]

We are not born racist. It is not genetically imposed. It is a stigma that is the result of life experiences. And, I might add, it is not limited to any race, although the Caucasian race is usually the race blamed for racism.

We may become racists as young children because of the teachings or racial slurs of our parents or relatives. We are "sponges" at that time, eagar to mimic those closest to us.

We may become racists as adolescents, eagar then to "fit in" with our peers who have either real or bogus racist views. Peer pressure? Of course.

Other life experiences occurring at any time in our life might lead us to racism: The close-up or distant observance of another race in a racist act or committing a criminal act against another race. Or, as some have already pointed out, the picture often portrayed by the media.

Those who have had these life experiences can rid themselves of the leaning as they mature, understand, reason or interface with those of different races. In fact, it is easy to shrug off the unforunate beliefs associated with racism.

And so, there is Idaho and its people.

We, who live in Idaho, have been dealt a bad hand. Many years ago, a mere handful of hateful people who chose to verbalize their terrible, racist feelings and arm themselves against their detractors became the media's big news. Because of that big story, and the fact that their compound was located in Idaho, many who followed the stiory in the news assumed the worst about Idaho. It was a racist state! I assure you, that was not true then, and it is not true now.


pimit2 (Bob)

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

There are so many more institutional dimensions to racism in areas with histories of race politics that date back many decades. The race issue in Idaho is really one involving Native Americans, but these populations are not so obvious to the average daily life. Mexican issues has shallow roots and owes its presence in conversation mainly to the media and to he baggage carried by transplants. African-American debates are even more distant. But we are susceptible to media's cartoonish image of race relations.

Up here, we are more likely to have the guard up owing to the existence of our tourist identity. This means many unfamiliar faces come and go...The inner warmth is reserved for those who become familiar and therefore more trusting. Of course, that does not mean we are not friendly, cordial, or polite. We are...sometimes effusively so...

Folks coming from big city environs or from politically correct areas tend to assume an upfront courtesy that we here won't give until it is earned. This presumption can sometimes be interpreted as a less than overflowing accomodation, i.e. as anti-whatever-you-are, when this is often not at all the case at all.

Now, I am not saying that we are devoid of racism and racists. It and they are here. But more than anything else where, we are protective of our personal space and our freedoms from "social obligation." The idea is this, "I'll be kind and welcoming, but don't you dare mandate this!!"


Because our population here is pretty modest (roughly 1/4 million in the four northern counties), not everyone sees people from different ethnicities or hears foreign accents that often. Curiosity and novelty does not racism make. I once lives in upstate NY. I saw some nasty instances of racism there...Sheer ignorance from deeply ignorant people...Ugly...

Finally, it may sound bizarre, but I actually "appreciate" our form of racism. It lacks violence and is not so overt. As such, it provides us with rather innocuous reminders--without great threats to life or limb-- that these things do exist in the world. Utopian ideals, while attractive sounding, always seem to generate strange and false senses of security which IMHO do more harm than good.

We all, each and every one, have racial biases and do racial "pre-judging." It is what you choose to do with those feelings that defines the humanity within us. And I would like to think that here in SP, we have a great slice of that humanity...

Wow... as is usual, put that like I couldn't put it myself. That's the truth, though. Idahoans know their own diverse and non-native history, and are therefore accepting of anyone who comes in, so long as those folks don't feel entitled to special treatment or undue respect despite their behavior. Really, it's my opinion that it results in less distinction that way, but that's still disputable.

Much as with Sage, I'm always enjoying your posts for some healthy perspective, even though I've got my own trip.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

I personally would appreciate it if in arguing against stereotypes one didn't use stereotypes. I lived in SF for over 10 years, went to university there, and spent time in just about every neighborhood, including regularly doing my grocery shopping at markets in Chinatown, and living across the street from public housing projects in a traditionally black neighborhood as it began to become gentrified by many oblivious whites, and I never experienced anything like "whites not welcome."

If one is to engage in a legitimately serious discussion of this issue it would be advisable to first acquire a firm comprehension of the difference between racism and prejudice, as well as an understanding of how racism gets played out amongst populations which are not even necessarily racist but which find themselves contending for too few or inadequately distributed resources. It's pretty hard to oppress when you don't have any power.

This here is a good discussion to reference to a prior thread:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/idaho...-compound.html

This is where norcalmom and I got in a very sensible discussion on the issue. My comment #72 especially pertains to this issue, among many others, so this thread would be especially worth browsing for the OP, even aside from my vanity. There is a lot of racial contention in our culture that results in prejudice and the stereotypes that follow (and the difference b/w prejudice and stereotypes is a good thing to note, as it's often the difference b/w implicit and explicit bigotry, respectively). In the end, a lot of people are aggravated by what they experience with certain individuals (it's a social guarantee that bad interaction will outweigh positive interaction due to the mnemonic coding of each, unfortunately). This aggravation results in people who hold a bias in all their interaction(s) that fall(s) outside their race/ethnicity. In that sense, I can say that every race has its own racism.

However, of course you know that I disagree with the stereotype that any given race could be racist. This is all individuals, after all. Just bitter people... nothing more, nothing less.

But I would say racism is a human problem (part of societies) resulting from a myriad of historical contention, and not a problem specific to any race in general. Generalizations are reprehensible, but the idea that any race can be racist is unfortunately a fact.

[rickers]

Whoever said that Mark Furhman is an avowed racist is just plain wrong and has obviously never met him.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by stingraynm

Much as with Sage, I'm always enjoying your posts for some healthy perspective, even though I've got my own trip.

Oh... I should clarify what I said in the haste of the evening. I enjoy Sage's posts for healthy perspective, and am not saying he's got his own trip like me. So, Sage, I'm not pulling you into my self-deprecating humor.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by rickers

Whoever said that Mark Furhman is an avowed racist is just plain wrong and has obviously never met him.

The media often offers people two delusions: (1) that they can make assertions outside personal experience and/or avid research and (2) that certain logical fallacies are legitimate arguments and vice versa. Most pundits are encouraged and even coerced into maintaining shallow coverage of issues... just ask Montel Williams, who had the courage to point out what rampant commercialism and shallow celebrities are doing to diminish our culture in mass at the individual level. A person who develops opinions via the television news media will likely only bring figurative junk to any discussion of issues. However, a lot of shows are a great aside in conjunction with several other news sources and legislative proceedings that offer an in-depth coverage, usually with a thorough knowledge of the facts and prospects in an issue.

Unfortunately, most people only know the O.J. trial via the mind-sucking box in their den.