Minorities living in Idaho, How is it??? (safer, to move)

[leo41]

It disagree with Stingraynm, racism in Idaho is not a non-issue....it is a very real issue but no different than in the rest of the 49 states. Racism, or homophobia, or social stereotyping is tragically endemic to the white population in the U.S. The first step to curing this epidemic that is endemic is to acknowledge that fact. Once we accept that reality there is a chance that it can be cured. Idaho, being largely white is no better or no worse that any other state as far as racisim is concerned. We need to grow past the visual or phonetical clues that spawn racism and begin to see the humanity that exists in all of us. Idahoans are, in this regard, no different than anyone else.

[Sage of Sagle]

Leo41,

Interesting political view. Certainly 180 degrees different than my own...but you're allowed to speak your mind.

Let's just be careful to avoid taking it (as you did) to more broad political views as that starts to push this thread into needing to be moved to the Politics forum, and I'd rather keep it Idaho-specific...

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by leo41

It disagree with Stingraynm, racism in Idaho is not a non-issue....it is a very real issue but no different than in the rest of the 49 states. Racism, or homophobia, or social stereotyping is tragically endemic to the white population in the U.S. The first step to curing this epidemic that is endemic is to acknowledge that fact. Once we accept that reality there is a chance that it can be cured. Idaho, being largely white is no better or no worse that any other state as far as racisim is concerned. We need to grow past the visual or phonetical clues that spawn racism and begin to see the humanity that exists in all of us. Idahoans are, in this regard, no different than anyone else.

Hmmm... okay, I'll give you that and admit that my wording was poorly chosen considering the scope of ideas\issues that the word "racism" encompasses, which stretch way beyond absolutes like "non-existent".

Otherwise, we seem to be in agreement that odds of finding racism in Idaho are same as those for finding racism in most any locale of similar demographics and culture. Though I must add that the "white population in the U.S." aren't the only group/region who have a problem with racism, and to believe that would be rather racist. I'm sure you got into your specific point like I did and forgot the implication of certain wording, so I'm just offering some reciprocal clarification.

As for the cure, I'd say most of us have admitted there is a problem (and some haven't), but that's just the first step of many. Stereotyping and prejudice are innate to humanity as a cognitive impulse. The key is that other innate thing called sentient thought, which allows us to get beyond are impulsive notions. As it were, some people haven't yet grasped that concept for any myriad of awful, tragic, or idiotic reasons.

Ultimately, I'm sure we'll cure prejudice and the resultant bigotry about the same time we cure murder, rape, theft, greed, wrath, addiction, etc. As long as we share existence with people who have failed to find respect for others and themselves (chicken and egg right there), we are going to see these problems. We have to invalidate whatever impulses within ourselves while doing our best as a society to ensure that it doesn't run amok around us (i.e., punish it socially).

Unfortunately, the implicit and "closet" racism that is now allowed to run amok is harder to hold accountable (no retribution, an injustice); and just like murder and rape, the types of people who participate in it are beyond issues of conscience like recognizing a problem with their rationale, preoccupations, or obsessions. Their society has made it clear that their mindset is dysfunctional, so the real problem is the choice they're making to ignore what should come as a core value. Those who have an inability to transcend their basal impulses and notions in favor of a respect for cohabitation with the rest of humanity... well, they're just going to scoff at your cure.

Cheers to my fellows (like you) who hope (against all seeming odds, sadly) for solutions to our social dysfunctions and atrocities; but the efforts against all "foes of utopia" are battles that hopefully stretch beyond ideas that have been mainstream for decades and specific-to-general interpretations of semantics. No offense intended... more just me hoping that the battle is moving to yonder fronts, if you'll entertain a little ground combat analogy. Most of the idiots just needed a few decades to see the light (and maybe some really are just out of the loop on the whole "bigot thing" still being an issue); nonetheless, now is the time we've gotta mobilize against the jerks.

My weapons of choice: dialogue and accountability

Once we can accept that cultural differences were - and are - bound to exist due to our history yet have very little to do with someone's skin color today (that is, race gave us different cultures due to history, but we coexist in the same society in a more modern time, so skin color says nothing about the subculture to which a person belongs [clothing and demeanor, on the other hand...]), then we can drop the shallow skin distinction and interact/cohabitate without boundaries or reservations.

Race is a primitive distinction. We are all part of different cultures, yet we are all part of the same society. There are those who will cling to the old distinctions as a pathetic attempt to grasp distinctions that their shallow minds consider a part of their culture, and there are the rest of us who get beyond the fallacious notion that segregating a culture should a part of any culture.

This is a time to put aside differences and unite in the advancement of our society as a whole. Some are too petty to set their sights on that, and I'm glad to help spread the wake-up call that we need to slough them off and leave them behind if we want our children to enjoy the national prosperity we enjoyed in the past decades.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Leo41,

Interesting political view. Certainly 180 degrees different than my own...but you're allowed to speak your mind.

Let's just be careful to avoid taking it (as you did) to more broad political views as that starts to push this thread into needing to be moved to the Politics forum, and I'd rather keep it Idaho-specific...

You wrote while I wrote, so I didn't see this. I stated my thoughts on the issue, but I'll leave it at what I've already asserted. I join a lot of folks in figuring that racism is as solved as it's going to get outside of mind-control devices and overbearing - plus presumptuous - regulatory policies. It would be nice to erradicate it, but it's all down to personal decisions and social accountability at this juncture.

What I'm hoping more and more people begin to ask is how we're going to mobilize a society that's addicted to ideological pet issues against the fallout of bad economic policies amidst a uniquely competitive global economy ("uniquely competitive" in contrast to hard times this country weathered when there were far fewer well-matched competitors). There will be plenty of time for blaming/whining about pet issues once we get our priorities straight on education, security, allocation of resources, and international trade. If we don't take those on, then we'll have to settle for bickering over basic necessities like income (hard to get without a job) and safety (hard to find when too many people have no income to legitimately get other necessities).

[Sage of Sagle]

Given that Idahoans work very hard dispel the misconceptions about this state, and racial diversity and racial tolerance are an oft-repeated query, I have some leeway when these dicussions stray into political commentary. However, should it devolve into political debate, that's when it ceases to be proper content for this sub-section. So as y'all "cuss and discuss" this issue, just realize that the more you discuss general race issues in the USA, the more likely we will move the thread out of the Idaho sub-forum...

[WarrenK]

There are always people who have a problem with those who aren't like themselves, but from my experience (16 of my 19 years on this planet) Idaho is about as tolerant as it can be. Yes, the headquarters of the Aryan Nations was located in Hayden.. but did we want them here? No. When a few dozen Neo-Nazis marched or demonstrated, hundreds of protesters came out to resist them, to drown out their voices. When Butler ran for Mayor, he succeeded in getting 50 votes. 50. In a town of 9000! A clear sign as any that Idaho itself is not the problem, just an infinitesimal fraction of its population. Lastly, when Butler died, we celebrated; the newspapers were unabashedly enthusiastic about the death of their leader. When they moved out of Idaho, nobody missed them!

Yes, there are racists in Idaho. Just as there are racists in every other state. I dare say that you'll find less here than you will in more diverse areas, because we're not separated by race; we don't define ourselves by our skin color.

A few personal examples:

During my Junior year of High School, on Halloween, one of the kids came to school dressed like a KKK member. He was promptly punched out by a white guy. The person under the mask? A black guy. xD

My chemistry teacher, Heinz, was German.. a few of the students would poke fun at him about his ancestry, but one of 'em took it too far. He raised his arm and said "Sieg Heil!". Heinz freaked. The kid almost pissed himself in terror from being the target of a barrage of german insults! It was amusing to say the least.

When I was a senior, there was a black girl who thought every white person (pretty much every student in my school) was a racist. If anyone did ANYTHING she didn't like, she accused them of being anti-black. Nobody liked her, but it wasn't because she was black -- it was because she was a racist! She was judging us based on the color of our skin.

Simply put? As a minority, one would have nothing to fear about moving to Idaho.. racism is met with hostility and disgust, so in the event that someone had a problem with you there would be no shortage of people who had a problem with them! Just.. don't be from California. Those people we have a problem with. They sell their houses (which go for 5x what we'd pay here) and move to Idaho, buy up something for a HUGE profit, and raise the prices of EVERYTHING. The house I'm in now was 85,000 when we moved in.. now it'd go for 250k minimum. Ugh.

We don't hate people of color, but we DO hate people from Cali!

[norcalmom101]

IMHO, Racism isn't just comprised of a dislike or hatred for another based on the color of their skin, what I would call prejudice, but also requires that there be a disparity of power, economic, political, etc., and as such, the black girl you disliked for her behavior may have been prejudiced, but she would not be able to qualify as a racist as she surely did not belong to a group possessing economic or political power over those she exhibited prejudice against.

[Sandpointian]

Nor Cal Mom,
I do not know if I agree with your qualification. The "-ism" is Racism means that you see everything systematically in terms of race ex ante. The thinking is a priori, according to prior beliefs, rather than empirical, i.e. based on facts.

For example, say we have a working class Black girl and and a working class White kid. Say the Black girl sees everything about that White kid in terms of his race and not his actions/deeds. If so, then she is racist.

Now...as far as what policy should do, if anything, may be a function of relative power. For example, say two people of relative stature hurling racist epithets at each other and the sheriff is called in. The public may be best served if the policy response is benign, as in scold the two, tell them to shake hands and buy them a cup of coffee. However, say a group of workers were taunting a worker of a different race with complicity of the boss. There, one can argue that since the actions constitute a systemic bias that this chould be redressed in favor of the targeted individual (company apology, fine, restitution, etc.). But these policy actions should be separate from what constitutes the systematic pratice of racist beliefs, i.e. racism.

S
P.S. I should add that the blurring of the legal evaluation and the determining the appropriate action has really destroyed race relations over the years, in all directions. Those victimized feel that their case is lost among a greater policy battle (including those who do not fit into the Black-White paradigm that dominates most discussions), while those who victimize use the power structure/mechanisms to get away with a great degree of ugliness.

[norcalmom101]

Great points, Sandpointian.

[leo41]

Hi sage:
Not sure what you mean "taking it (as you did) to more broad politcal views". What about the "broad political view" of your sign-off quote--pretty broad political opinoin there. Hummmmmm?

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Leo41,

Interesting political view. Certainly 180 degrees different than my own...but you're allowed to speak your mind.

Let's just be careful to avoid taking it (as you did) to more broad political views as that starts to push this thread into needing to be moved to the Politics forum, and I'd rather keep it Idaho-specific...