Building a hypothetical home in NID! (Spirit Lake, Athol: real estate, appliances, home builder)

[elousv]

Let's build a house (code for please help the newbie)!
While searching for real estate in and around CDA, I came across the Nickel's Worth paper. It has adds for all the stuff I want and more. So I am using that as a starting point to build a home. The goal is a house on a decent lot for a budget of $300K. One add that caught my eye; 10 TIMBERED ACRES with
filtered Hauser Lake view.
Drain field installed and
transformer at property line. It is going for $117K, say I get it for $110K even. Next I noted a home builder as low as $52,900 and the site has as low as $38/sq.ft. Of course it says it might be slightly higher in ID. So let's say $50/sq. ft. One of the floorplans I like is 2163 sq.ft., so let's round that off to $110K. My dream is to have a shop and that paper has tons to choose from. One is 36X48X14 for $18,500, call it $20K. OK, $240K so far. I want a concrete floor for the shop, I'll guess 5$ a sq. for 2000 sq.ft., about $10K. I need electrical from the street, say 200ft at $15 per for $3000, and another 100' to shop for another $1500. Panel in shop another $1000. On to water, well at $25/ft. say 200' deep for $5K. Add expansion tank for another $1K. Driveway say 12X200 plus another 600 sq. ft. of turning room for 3000 sq. ft. at $5 per is $15K for blacktop. $5K for septic and RV connection and I am at a bit over $280K. All numbers are WAGs so feel free to put real ones in if you have knowledge.

[Trace_Rinaldi]

We bought 25 timbered acres near the south end of lake CdA, have built a 30x40x10 shop and drilled a 180' well, and are ready for electric hookup. If I had your budget I could now build a HUGE house, and probably buy a new truck..

I think your numbers are pretty solid except I kinda think the house will cost more, and the land "could" cost less.. Our well was around $7,500 for 180' and that was the best price I found. Your hypothetical shop is bigger than what we built, but I think you can beat that price for a simple shelled shop with concrete. Call a place called DALCO Construction, and get a quote from them. They did fantastic work and were very reasonable.

Heres a couple shots of the shop.. Hope this helps.

[GhostInTheShell]

I'm no builder, but $110k sounds low for a new house that size in Idaho. I'm wondering if those are turnkey figures or not. Do they include labor, appliances, windows, doors, flooring, siding, paint, electrical work, etc? The numbers I ran for a new home in that area came out MUCH higher. Of course, there are many different types of homes. I've been playing with ideas and sketches for a custom timber frame home quite a bit smaller than yours. The prices for those are all over the chart depending on how you finish it out, so it's tough to pin anything down.

[IdahoEagle]

The Nickels Worth Welcome to Nickel's Worth! is a great source of information.

I think your total is a little low based on what I have seen. The $52,000 home is from a builder in Washington and I haven't heard of any projects they have done here. If you are thinking about building, and have the skills, time and patience to do so you might also think about buying something that is partially built or remodeled or even a manufactured home on acreage that you can live in while building your dream home.

Here are some examples:

10 acres in Spirit Lake East with a partially remodeled log home for $199,000, with owner financing available:
34416 N ST JOE DR, Spirit Lake, ID 83869

10 acres in Spirit Lake with partially finished new contstruction 2,300 sq. foot home and a 48x30 shop for $266,000.
30178 N KALEB LN, Spirit Lake, ID 83869

10 Acres in Athol with triple wide and a 36x40 shop for $174,000.
32584 N SHEEP SPRINGS RD, Athol, ID

Just something to think about...

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

A couple years ago, when construction was booming, typical home building prices were running $125-$175/sf, depending on how high end you went. Construction is way down, so contractors are hungry now. Just the same, I don't think you'd touch $50/sf. Your other prices sound in the ballpark.

[Sage of Sagle]

We built a nice home with just about every single element upgraded heavily, from framing and insulation and electrical to extensive granite, slate, tilework, fixtures, etc. We still brought it in at under $135/sf through extremely diligent oversight of our budget items.

Even if contractors cut their labor costs by 20%, that would probably only knock about 10% off the per-sf price since materials like concrete are so dang expensive, insulation (blown-in and spray foam) aren't cheap, and lumber is still pricey.

I have my records, so I can tell you what many things cost, but I can also just recall most things from our budget, and I can adjust for level-of-finish from what was "standard" to some of the things we changed.

$5/sf for concrete is about right. You can probably get it for $4/sf for that much, but that's not counting grading/prep. So what have you budgeted for grading (including finish grading) and excavation? Figure $5K for VERY basic grading and excavation for your house. At $5/sf, that's leaving you $3000 for driveway grading. Probably enough if it's simple work over slight slope or flat, but not enough if you're road-building. You budgeted $5K for septic, so you got that covered. But I guess my point is that you'll probably have to factor $10K or more for site work unless it's just a completely flat lot. You'll probably have about $2500 in permits (roughly). Assuming your 2200'ish sf is 2 story, then you're probably at about 1100/sf per floor. Figure footings and foundations is probably $10K or so.

You'll probably be at least $35-45K in framing, and that's figuring in trusses in there too. More like $50K, but hopefully you can get cheaper labor with today's economy. Figure at least $5K for roofing, and that's composite, not metal. Siding is probably $15K if you do hardy plank. Cheaper if you go vinyl. If you do vinyl windows, you can probably get that ALL done for under $6K. Maybe under $4K, depending on the number and size. Figure with 3br/2ba and kitchen (I'm sort of guessing based on square footage you provided), plumbing rough in is probably $7K, and if you're really careful maybe $3K for fixtures. Electrical should probably be at least $10K. Maybe as low as $6-7K if you're really keeping it to bare minimum. Figure at least $3K for a single fireplace. If you're ducting HVAC, you're probably looking at least $10K with a single furnace and heat pump setup. If you're doing nothing but a wood burning stove for heat (and maybe a couple kick panels in distant rooms) and no AC or ducted ventilation, you're going to save most of that figure and you can combine it with your fireplace budget.

Insulation. In NID, I seriously suggest doing all blown-in and spray foam. But you'll have to factor at least $10K for a 2200sf house probably. Say you do batting for $7K total. Drywall/tape/texture is probably $10K. Painting outside/inside is probably $10-13K. Cabinets, counters, and hardware, if you keep it WAY cheaper, like off the shelf Lowes/HD stuff is probably $7-8K. I'm guessing here, since we went high end so I'm just thinking of what I've heard others paying for basic stuff with store stock stuff and formica counters. Assuming you do cheap flooring and budget carpeting, maybe you could budget $7-8K for flooring. Maybe less, I don't know.

Figure at least $5-6K for interior doors and trim work (case/base, etc). Finish hardware is probably $2K. Knobs, locksets, drawer pulls, etc. Your appliance budget could probably be held to $3K if you do not include washer/dryer and you do all budget line stuff. If you do any decks or patios, figure $5-20K, but let's say $5K for something basic. If you forego any landscaping, you can budget $0 for now on that.

If you're doing a garage, that's a whole separate budget. I STRONGLY suggest doing a garage. Figure $30/sf and up. So $30-40K is probably a good ballpark for a 3 car garage.

So take all these numbers, and I get roughly $198K including all the things you put in your post BUT NO GARAGE. That's figuring no HVAC beyond a wood burning stove and some kick panels, FYI. Now, if we say (for sake of cost reduction in today's economy) labor comes down some. Maybe it lowers your total cost by $10K, so $188K. So TOTALLY ballparking it, I'm coming up with $86/sf as probably the cheapest you'll get if you're your own general contractor. If you need to hire a general, figure 10% more. Or if you do some of the work yourself, maybe you'll save $10/sf and hit the $75'ish per sf range. hard to say.

Now, my disclaimer. I looked at my own construction budget (45 line items) and tried to just cut it WAY down for very basic work. I could be wrong and it could be lower, but it PROBABLY shouldn't be much higher. And of course, if you want to DM me, I can actually go through EVERY line item bit by bit with you and discuss the costs.

[elousv]

Thanks all, lot's of things to think about. From Sage's numbers, I guess some of those real estate adds that claim they are priced "below replacement cost" may be true after all. I will have to call that one builder of the mythical $38 a square house and ask them a few questions.

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Just found this thread--incredibly useful, but not very encouraging. We're in the process of figuring out what to do first on our property. Right now it looks like we can't afford anything at all this year! We have power and phone at the property corner, no well, but the neighbors have good wells. The property was perced some years ago. We won't be putting a cabin in until 2-3 years from now at the earliest, but we'd love to start preparing the land this summer. It's completely flat, wooded, with a big clearing. What's the smartest thing to plan on doing first? Get power to the property? Make a gravel driveway? There's already an old logging trail leading into the clearing, and we can improve that. Clear away fallen trees etc? Put a gate up? Anything else that's top priority when you have to spread the process out over several years? We're aching to get started, but it may be the smartest thing just to leave the land the way it is until we're ready to build. Maybe we'll just visit and have a picnic!

[elousv]

We ended up finding a place we could not build for the price. With your property, I would clear it up first, especially if it was stuff that was close to free to do. Maybe you can sell some firewood. Then you can get a better feeling for where you want to put your cabin and which way it should face etc.

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Originally Posted by elousv

We ended up finding a place we could not build for the price. With your property, I would clear it up first, especially if it was stuff that was close to free to do. Maybe you can sell some firewood. Then you can get a better feeling for where you want to put your cabin and which way it should face etc.

Thanks, Elousv! Sounds sensible. We have to start small--I'm just impatient! You got the place in Hauser, right? Bet you're excited! Going up this summer?