A Vote Against FLDS Colonialization (Rexburg, Hayden: real estate, condo, employment)

[norcalmom101]

Why nothing has been done to date seems like spilt milk. It is imperative that members of the community raise their concerns to their local and federal governments. Especially given the high dollar value of government contracts awarded to companies which are owned by and fund the activities of this group. One would think most odd the Department of Defense contracts having been awarded to FLDS companies, especially given their cross-border activities. If the DOD is funding this cult, what other groups with activities counter to the values of the American people are being funded? It underscores the failure of the War on Terror and the War on Drugs to stem the flow of drugs and victims of human trafficking into this country. How many of us who consider ourselves libertarians include the freedom to traffic in humans among those we value?

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

Mtn SR,
Re: article.

Their polygamist sect has been living in the southeast corner of British Columbia for almost 60 years without legal challenge by Canadian authorities. Two FLDS schools, with some students from Boundary County, get almost $1 million a year from the Canadian government.

The move into North Idaho by FLDS members began in 2003 after a leadership split in the Canadian community.

So from the POV of NID, things changed materially six years ago. Also, the article suggests that there is a "landmark criminal case" being debated currently...hence the more recent interest.

Also, as non-LDS, I for one do not follow news on the FLDS issues so carefully and am fully engaged in other aspects of life--work and family--so when I read the Spokesman article, I fully admit to being surprised as to the details. Also, there is a qualitative difference to knowing of the group in Canada versus reading about a planned strategic move en masse to NID. I certainly did not know...and I know few who knew more than a few superficial details of the BC community...

I am ignorant of why those in northern ID haven't been more aware of those UT license plates traveling to Canada to see family. The St. George - Canadian border pathway has been well-traveled, or so I've been told.
>>> ????? What relationship does that have with FLDS moving from Canada to NID? Good question. If you ask, many can give you answers. Unless they had a frame that said "I *heart* FLDS in NID," I would not have taken another look at Utah plate. Don't forget, we get lots of through traffic here many Western states, esp in the summer. So does all of ID, WY and western MT. Besides, the issue is not Utah-based LDS, but of the particularly extreme FLDS actively colonizing NID. I'll agree for now the issue is NID. I'll disagree the group is expanding into NID only. The B.C. groups seems to be focused on northern ID., but many states report polygamists

But that is exactly the point of the thread, is it not? Unless one is looking for such detailed information, the average citizen is unaware of the depth of issues until it is revealed in some fashion. Now when I google, I see that there are stories online going back at least to 2001, although with a far milder tone that I read this week.

Thanks for your response Sandpointian,

Yes, from my perspective you and I agree about the purpose of this thread. Raising awareness of what has happened or is changing is always important. I'll add learning the history of why FLDS even went to Canada may help.

I'm not sure when you say, "Also, as non-LDS, I for one do not follow news on the FLDS issues so carefully and am fully engaged in other aspects of life--work and family," how that pertains to my post. Would you please explain? I opt to not be offended by that remark, but could have been. Others, with more time or interest than I, may appreciate further clarification so there are no misunderstandings about to whom or what your comment was directed.

I believe the changing face of polygamy in many states should concern citizens in ALL states regardless of whether those citizens are Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, LDS, Jewish etc. or don't have a religious affiliation. Or whether they have a family or not, or how many hours one works weekly. Or if they are disabled or unemployed. In other words, I believe everyone should be concerned about certain patterns shown by the FLDS.

Perhaps threads in the TX, AZ, UT forums may be useful to read to understand more specific information about FLDS plans. However, many of those posts may be out-dated now given events in the last year.

BTW - just to be perfectly clear, I wouldn't know about the polygamists who settled in B.C. and Alberta had I not done contract work for the State of Utah for 5 years. I was surprised the Alberta group was not included in the thread, but they may not be involved in the pending case - I wouldn't know.

My contract work required me to be in St. George 2-3 days/ month as well as other outlying communities in UT various amounts of days/year. I met several polygamists via my work in St. George and in other smaller Utah cities when I worked in those locations. I learned a lot. But, this isn't about me and what I do or don't know. It's about the laws of the U.S., Idaho and northern counties of ID being enforced as well as citizens being informed. Myths are just that. Facts are facts and remain facts over time. I encourage residents to become informed now. From yesterday's article, a lot of people should be starting to ask a lot of questions.

It sounds like from your Internet search you found a lot of information, Sandpointian. What is important now is what you and others do with your new knowledge from today forward. I'd encourage all to research anything they find confusing or don't understand, not just about this subject, but everything.

IMHO, this thread was long overdue. Glad someone finally started it.

MSR

[norcalmom101]

I think we must be very careful to make a distinction between polygamy and the illegal activities of the FLDS. If grownups want to be polygamous, that is really none of my business. In checking up on the info in this thread, it seemed to me that groups that support polygamy are just as if not more upset about this group than we are. There is a big difference between sexually abusing minors and living a lifestyle with multiple consenting adult partners.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

I think we must be very careful to make a distinction between polygamy and the illegal activities of the FLDS. If grownups want to be polygamous, that is really none of my business. In checking up on the info in this thread, it seemed to me that groups that support polygamy are just as if not more upset about this group than we are. There is a big difference between sexually abusing minors and living a lifestyle with multiple consenting adult partners.

Norcalmom101,

How would you describe followers of Warren Jeffs, or Jeffs himself? Consenting adult with some women, sexual abuser with teenage girls (and boys- don't forget all the boys kicked out of Colorado City/Hilldale.)?

I do agree with you that adults - of legal age and ability to give their voluntary consent - are not mine to protect or monitor. Adults are responsible for themselves and their behavior. Children, are very different, as I think we agree. However, I am a bit puzzled by your comment, perhaps because I didn't look at all the groups quoted for the article.

So let me apologize in advance for any errors I've made. Then let me ask, is this group totally separate than the FLDS in UT, AZ, CO, ND, TX and other states? I may be confused and will certainly admit it, if that is the case. If the Canadian group moving into northern Idaho is somehow removed and different, please, someone explain it to me.

Thanks,

MSR

[norcalmom101]

At the risk of digressing back to the arguments comparing certain practioners of Islam (or certain practitioners of Judaism) to the FLDS, I would gladly clarify for you, MSR, that my understanding is that this group we are discussing is exactly the same as those you refer to, ie FLDS=FLDS.

I think it is very important that we distinguish between polygamy and the activities of the FLDS cult, just as we distinguish between legitimate religions and the FLDS cult.

[norcalmom101]

Excellent new article on the subject:

Woman who left polygamous sect offers refuge to those who want out | The News Tribune - UPDATES | Seattle-Tacoma News, Weather, Sports, Jobs, Homes and Cars | South Puget Sound's Destination

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

Excellent new article on the subject:

Woman who left polygamous sect offers refuge to those who want out | The News Tribune - UPDATES | Seattle-Tacoma News, Weather, Sports, Jobs, Homes and Cars | South Puget Sound's Destination

Really interesting article, NCM101. Thanks. I tried to give you a rep point, but couldn't.

Tapestry has useful articles too. However, in staying with the theme of how violent the FLDS cult can be, I wanted to post this article I found.

**Caution - do not read if you get sick easily.****

Mormon Fundamentalism and Violence: A Historical Analysis. The Blood Atonement and Oaths of Vengeance info, as interpreted by the FLDS, is scary to me.

Many people enjoy living the St. George area, which is great if it works for them. I've always had a really uncomfortable feeling about it. I fear the weapons being stock-piled at Hilldate/Colorado City and elsewhere. I honestly worry about a major conflict between the FLDS and others someday.

When one reads about how different leaders of the FLDS executed or killed other leaders, perhaps some can better understand my feeling of fear of a future conflict in southern UT. I HOPE I AM WRONG! I'd LOVE to be wrong about this.

Anyway, I hope this article helps some in northern ID and others trying to learn more information.

Thanks for the discussion. I really believe those who don't know need the opportunity to learn how violent the FLDS can be. I can't think of the name of the organization for the boys who have been expelled from the compounds, but will find it. There is very interesting literature about them too.

Not only is this about child protection, but protection of women too.

MSR.

[Sandpointian]

HI MSR,

I'm not sure when you say, "Also, as non-LDS, I for one do not follow news on the FLDS issues so carefully and am fully engaged in other aspects of life--work and family," how that pertains to my post. Would you please explain? I opt to not be offended by that remark, but could have been.
>> No offense intended whatsoever. I just meant to say that I am not all knowledgeable and have no automatic reason to stay abreast of FLDS events. I am so busy with surviving the family grind that I have little time to devote to affairs outside of my specific responsibilities in life. I am assuming that those that are LDS would be far more up-to-speed than me on FLDS issues just as I would be more up to speed on Catholic issues than non-Catholics. No excuse, but it explains my late arrival to the subject.

Others, with more time or interest than I, may appreciate further clarification so there are no misunderstandings about to whom or what your comment was directed.
>> Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

I believe the changing face of polygamy in many states should concern citizens in ALL states regardless of whether those citizens are Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, LDS, Jewish etc. or don't have a religious affiliation.
>> I am concerned, hence the thread, but concern in the modern age does not automatically translate to keeping fully informed. It explains why I was probably more shocked than others, as on these issues my head was more in the sand.

>> I also tried to make a couple of distinctions. One, I am concerned for the how FLDS colonization (which is what it ends up being) can undermine the existing functions of government in Boundary County, a place that can get overwhelmed quite quickly with larger numbers. Hence my concern with the nature of the constitution followed by the immigrants. Two, I distinguish between the freedom to practice religion and the certain tenets that impose great restrictions, including death, on freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution. Hence, I make references to certain Muslim practices (and quite frankly any religion) that though politically incorrect, remain relevant to this discussion. Three, I try to distinguish between my concerns for NID and America and those same practices elsewhere. My concern is for NID and America. I make no commentary on the practices in other countries--that is for those people to decide. That said, I have great empathy for what is now transpiring in Western Europe and feel strongly that they should have considered a thread like this 20+ years ago.

I was surprised the Alberta group was not included in the thread, but they may not be involved in the pending case - I wouldn't know.
>> I plead ignorance. I am just getting up to speed. And believe me, I fully acknowledge my lack of information and sensitivity to the FLDS issues in general and as they pertain to NID. Where I hope to contribute is the making it clear to NID the fundamentals of what is at stake.

It's about the laws of the U.S., Idaho and northern counties of ID being enforced as well as citizens being informed. Myths are just that. Facts are facts and remain facts over time. I encourage residents to become informed now. From yesterday's article, a lot of people should be starting to ask a lot of questions.
>> With you 100%

It sounds like from your Internet search you found a lot of information, Sandpointian. What is important now is what you and others do with your new knowledge from today forward.
>> I am literally at the foot of a mountain that I should have known about but did not bother to see. Now, it fills my view.

Cheers, S

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

HI MSR,

I'm not sure when you say, "Also, as non-LDS, I for one do not follow news on the FLDS issues so carefully and am fully engaged in other aspects of life--work and family," how that pertains to my post. Would you please explain? I opt to not be offended by that remark, but could have been.
>> No offense intended whatsoever. I just meant to say that I am not all knowledgeable and have no automatic reason to stay abreast of FLDS events. I am so busy with surviving the family grind that I have little time to devote to affairs outside of my specific responsibilities in life. I am assuming that those that are LDS would be far more up-to-speed than me on FLDS issues just as I would be more up to speed on Catholic issues than non-Catholics. No excuse, but it explains my late arrival to the subject.

Others, with more time or interest than I, may appreciate further clarification so there are no misunderstandings about to whom or what your comment was directed.
>> Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

I believe the changing face of polygamy in many states should concern citizens in ALL states regardless of whether those citizens are Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, LDS, Jewish etc. or don't have a religious affiliation.
>> I am concerned, hence the thread, but concern in the modern age does not automatically translate to keeping fully informed. It explains why I was probably more shocked than others, as on these issues my head was more in the sand.

>> I also tried to make a couple of distinctions. One, I am concerned for the how FLDS colonization (which is what it ends up being) can undermine the existing functions of government in Boundary County, a place that can get overwhelmed quite quickly with larger numbers. Hence my concern with the nature of the constitution followed by the immigrants. Two, I distinguish between the freedom to practice religion and the certain tenets that impose great restrictions, including death, on freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution. Hence, I make references to certain Muslim practices (and quite frankly any religion) that though politically incorrect, remain relevant to this discussion. Three, I try to distinguish between my concerns for NID and America and those same practices elsewhere. My concern is for NID and America. I make no commentary on the practices in other countries--that is for those people to decide. That said, I have great empathy for what is now transpiring in Western Europe and feel strongly that they should have considered a thread like this 20+ years ago.

I was surprised the Alberta group was not included in the thread, but they may not be involved in the pending case - I wouldn't know.
>> I plead ignorance. I am just getting up to speed. And believe me, I fully acknowledge my lack of information and sensitivity to the FLDS issues in general and as they pertain to NID. Where I hope to contribute is the making it clear to NID the fundamentals of what is at stake.

It's about the laws of the U.S., Idaho and northern counties of ID being enforced as well as citizens being informed. Myths are just that. Facts are facts and remain facts over time. I encourage residents to become informed now. From yesterday's article, a lot of people should be starting to ask a lot of questions.
>> With you 100%

It sounds like from your Internet search you found a lot of information, Sandpointian. What is important now is what you and others do with your new knowledge from today forward.
>> I am literally at the foot of a mountain that I should have known about but did not bother to see. Now, it fills my view.

Cheers, S

Good Luck, Sandpointain! I agree with the key points you made. And yes, you should be concerned how a county in ID who has limited resources (all 44 do) can be depleted quickly by a colonization like this one.

Please keep this thread up-dated with other info you and others find. You and your neighbors will be better prepared how to best deal with what exists now.

Catherine,

I appreciate you not dismissing moving to NID due to this discussion. I agree, I would certainly want to know if someone was going to build a large building, or doing something that changed what I thought I was getting in my new neighborhood.

There are a lot of good contributors on this board from NID. Perhaps you might want to PM a couple of them to ask about realtors? If you are comfortable with who you have, that is great. I tend to like referrals in matters like these, but that's just me. Good luck with your move.

MSR

[CatherineFrances]

Thanks and we are still looking for land. We go up when we 'can' on his days off from work. His Job = 24/7 high stress office job. My schedule is flexible! ; . )

These last few weeks and months have been nuts for us when it came to plans. We live in Western Montana.

If there was supposed to be something BIG built close to a scenic parcel that I bought or was interested in... I would want to know it ahead of time. If it did not bother me... I would still buy the property. If I wanted more seclusion and privacy - less traffic - less blockage of a 'view' - I would not buy it.

Back east, some nice Muslim people built a Mosque for moderate Muslims and it was well done/well built. It was built in the country close to a suburb on farm land not too close to the lake. People knew about it ahead of time and so forth. The farmers and other people had no objections to this being built. The Church or Mosque members are very kind to the neighbors. Things are kept up nice and clean. They are quiet and the children are very respectful of the adults and to others not of their religion. Everyone gets along fine. They have a school there too. Other people including other churches, religions, students of all ages, etc. have visited there and it is an open policy. I see nothing wrong with that. People knew what was being sold and built - planned ahead of time. The resources were not strained for utilities and so forth.

Side note to Countrylv22:

I found out some NID Church information for you. I sent you an updated PM tonight. I hope that this helps you. Best wishes.

Catherine