Practical questions about SE Idaho (Boise, Pocatello: how much, house, job market)

[taewa]

My lovely wife and I are considering Southeastern Idaho (Pocatello, IF, Sugar City, etc...) for our future home. We are both in school in Oregon right now, but we are actively researching areas to establish our home. I am going to be a Chiropractor, and my wife will be a Nurse, so we have a few questions about those fields in SE Idaho and some other practical considerations. You can reply to any specific question, but just please reference it by including the number. Thanks in advance.

1) What is the general job market for Nurses in SE Idaho - wages, job availability both in and out of hospitals, facilities, etc... (We understand that nursing is in demand everywhere you go, so relatively speaking here).
2) Are these areas open to Chiropractic and other forms of holistic health care? Any thoughts on the local market for Chiropractors???
3) Are the winters as bad as they say? I am from NE Oregon, so I am used to four seasons, but how bad are these infamous winters of yours? (specifically the wind)
4) Can anyone speak reliably on the availability of high-speed internet in these areas and more specifically the smaller surrounding communities?

[cleosmom]

1) I am pretty certain nurses are in demand as I know that EIRMC uses plenty of traveling nurses.

2) Yepperz, we have Chiropractors and mine does not only adjustments, but acupuncture as well.

3) Winters can have their moments here, subzero temps, windy conditions and snow/ice/freezing rain.

4) I'm on high speed through Cable One and love it.

[mamort]

This was posted a while back, don't know if you're still considering a move but...I'm an RN and grew up in Sugar City. I've worked at the hospital in Rexburg and Idaho Falls so I guess I'm qualified to give you my 2 cents. There will always be nursing jobs. The pay is pretty crummy. I make at least $10 an hour more working in Utah. It's a little harder to get on in Rexburg because there are more nurses in that small town because of a top-notch nursing program at the university.
I loved growing up in Sugar/Rexburg and the people are wonderful. However...a little dose of reality...they don't really like outsiders. They're not really trying to be rude but they really like their small Mormon towns and knowing your family..and your mother's family..and..well you get the idea. I can't tell you how many people complain about all the "Californians moving in!" By the way, it won't matter if you're not from California. Idaho Falls, Pocatello, Blackfoot aren't quite as close knit and a bit more diverse.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by taewa

My lovely wife and I are considering Southeastern Idaho (Pocatello, IF, Sugar City, etc...) for our future home. We are both in school in Oregon right now, but we are actively researching areas to establish our home. I am going to be a Chiropractor, and my wife will be a Nurse, so we have a few questions about those fields in SE Idaho and some other practical considerations. You can reply to any specific question, but just please reference it by including the number. Thanks in advance.

1) What is the general job market for Nurses in SE Idaho - wages, job availability both in and out of hospitals, facilities, etc... (We understand that nursing is in demand everywhere you go, so relatively speaking here).
2) Are these areas open to Chiropractic and other forms of holistic health care? Any thoughts on the local market for Chiropractors???
3) Are the winters as bad as they say? I am from NE Oregon, so I am used to four seasons, but how bad are these infamous winters of yours? (specifically the wind)
4) Can anyone speak reliably on the availability of high-speed internet in these areas and more specifically the smaller surrounding communities?

Taewa I don't know if you have already made your decision or not. But, here are my thoughts, for what they are worth.

1. RNs, BSNs and MSNs are all very marketable in Idaho Falls. I appreciate the comment from mamort about UT wages for RNs being $10.00/ hr more, but I would have to ask for more specficis.

Having lived both places, I've always found IDAHO to pay more. But, it may depend on experience, areas of expertise, and whether or not your wife wants to advance her education. Can you give me more details mamort, as I'm truly interested in what specialty and hospital system paid better in UT than eastern ID (as you identified Idaho Falls as your reference point, not Blackfoot or Pocatello). I'd totally believe the depressed nursing wages in Pocatello and some in Blackfoot.

In Idaho Falls, Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center (EIRMC) encourages further education and pays the tuition for employees who enroll and secure higher degrees. for example, I have a male friend how started as a surgical tech at EIRMC. Given his years of work and his education, he was accepted into an RN program that can't accomodate all applicants. EIRMC is paying for his tuition etc. as he gets his R.N. from ISU. Meanwhile, he has a full-time job while obtaining his higher eduation. He then has further plans which I don't feel I can disclose without asking him. But, let me say it this way, many after they have obtained their R.N. and then their BSN, sponsored by EIRMC, continue on for their Masters degrees. Not all are in nursing.

Educated and specialized nurses are well-compensated in Idaho Falls. Read the recruitment ads. Cardiac, ICU, Emergency and NICU in particular are highly compensated for trained and experienced nurses.

I might be wrong about this, but I think an RN has to have had one year of general med-surg to transfer to a specialty unit like ICU/ E.R. And several years of experience and training in the E.R. yield the nurses that fly on Air Idaho for rescue missions. EIRMC is the designated trauma center for Yellowstone National Park. They are busy. Besides the general nursing journals and online sites, you might want to check HCA recruitment or Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center - Home Page. There are other facilities as well, such as Mtn. View Hospital, Idaho Falls Surgical Center (actually a licensed hospital) and various home health agencies, infusion clinics, dialysis clinics etc. Your wife's training and interesting would be here only limits.

I'd stay away from the Pocatello nursing market, if it were me. There is major chaos currently with the hospital system and most nurses are either relocating to Idaho Falls, or driving to new jobs, that pay them much more. Some work in Blackfoot, but the opportunities (and areas of care) are much more limited.

And I agree, BYU-I has an excellent nursing program. I have several family members and friends who are graduates. Very good fundamental skills and several have continued to get their BSNs etc. elsewhere.

Personally, I know several RNs who have moved back to ID from UT, AZ, TX and elsewhere because the pay was so much better for someone with a few years experience (plus the flexibility - of how many hours worked/shift).

Question #2 - Chiropractors are busy in eastern ID. There is a specific practice that focuses on holistic medicine in Idaho Falls. I believe there may be 2 chiropractors there now. Also, another chiropractic group did something rather novel lately by recruiting an NP and PA to work with them. Thus, they could provide more comprehensive care. If you want those specific chiropractor's names/business names, send me a PM and I'll give you that information.

Rexburg, from my perspective, appears far oversaturated with chiropractors. But, you'd have to ask one to know for sure.

I'm always amazed how many new chiropractors open their doors in Idaho Falls each year. Very few leave - and if they do- it's usually due to other reasons, besides their practice.


3. Weather - I am gettiong a rather slanted opinon about this question, given what I've read. City-data does a good job plotting out the averages. Last year was unique given the sub-artic systems that kept moving in. WY, MT, ID, UT, CO and other states had weather far more severe than they usually have.

On the flip side, the interesting thing is in Salt Lake City, it is now hitting 100 degrees or more almost 20 days/year. 10-15 years ago, that was unheard of. I won't speculate on a cause, but it is safe to say the weather patterns are changing throughout the Intermountain Area. So while some talk about why they moved because it was so cold, I'm not sure what some lived through earlier is what current weather patterns are like.

I'm just curious if anyone else has ever noticed that those who post about the "horrible weather" in Idaho Falls are those who were not happy living in the area? It seems to me I can link about 10-15 comments of people who complain about the weather and their general unhappiness being in Idaho Falls.

Not a problem - no place is right for everyone, IMO. I wouldn't want to live in the Phoenix heat, but many do. However, I don't insult the intelligence of those who chose that as the right decision for them. For those with severe arthritis, probably their overall quality of life is better for more months than those who live in Great Falls. There are many factors of why people live where they do, regardless of where it is in the U.S.

So ask yourself the logical question: why are Teton and Driggs (Teton Co, ID) growing at record paces as they are across the valley from Jackson Hole, WY? Regardless of what the temperature is in Idaho Falls, it's about 8-10 less in Jackson Hole. What is "wrong" with all these people moving to Driggs and Teton, ID when it's so cold? Could it be some people enjoy skiing and the cold weather is what they live for instead of dread?

#4. The City of Idaho Falls laid major miles of fiber optics years ago to prepare for advanced Internet needs. And, the private companies seem to serve most customers very well with high speed access. Some are better than others, but isn't that the case everywhere?

Good luck in your education/endeavors. Check the area out and ask your peers who practice here. Several have attended the same Chiropractic school as you appear to be attending. Perhaps your school has a mentoring system that would allow you to spend time with an Idaho Falls-based alumni? The best answers are those you can get for yourself. However, in the meantime, let us know if you have further questions.

[pw72]

Let me try to be brief and concise...

Nurses are needed just about everywhere. Pocatello may have a somewhat greater need due to ISU and their medical community.

Weather is 4-seasons. However, driving from Pocatello to Blackfoot all last winter, there were very few days where it was bad. A little ice here and there, a couple of days of snow on the interstate, but that was about it. However, that was just one winter. (Dirty little secret...Pocatello is warmer but has slightly more snow...IF is colder, with a little less snow)

Internet...never had any problems using the local cable company, Cable One.

Other random thoughts: Pocatello is prettier with better mountain vistas. IF is growing somewhat faster with more retail choices.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pw72

Let me try to be brief and concise...

Nurses are needed just about everywhere. Pocatello may have a somewhat greater need due to ISU and their medical community.

Weather is 4-seasons. However, driving from Pocatello to Blackfoot all last winter, there were very few days where it was bad. A little ice here and there, a couple of days of snow on the interstate, but that was about it. However, that was just one winter. (Dirty little secret...Pocatello is warmer but has slightly more snow...IF is colder, with a little less snow)

Internet...never had any problems using the local cable company, Cable One.

Other random thoughts: Pocatello is prettier with better mountain vistas. IF is growing somewhat faster with more retail choices.

I agree Pocatello has a greater need for nurses, but not for the same reasons, PW72.

Check out the labor stats with the state of Idaho. See how many jobs are in health care in Bonneville County compared to Bannock.

The need is there given the chaos with Portneuf and nurses leaving. No doubt about that.

Opportunity for nurses exist in Idaho Falls, due to new programs, a new addition that will be built at EIRMC, and sub-specialists not found elsewhere in Idaho, or closer than Salt Lake City and/or Boise. Look at all the ASCs, home health agencies etc. and check the classifieds for all the different nursing opportunities in each county.

It may be at this very point in time, the NEED for RNs is greater in Pocatello given the mass exodus of nurses to other counties and jobs, but I believe the State Employment breakdown (county by county) will back that far more positions EXIST in Idaho Falls overall. Those positions may be currently filled, so not on the jobs list radar in quite the same manner as opportunities in Pocatello.

Many former employees, physicians and others say Pocatello has an ambitious hospital administrator who is trying to create his centers of excellence. Leaving all the other information I know aside, his programs are 20- 25 years behind Idaho Falls.

Check the date of the first cardiac caths were done in Idaho Falls and they were at Parkview Hospital on Blvd, long before EIRMC was ever built and the open heart surgery programs started in 1987. Pocatello has had a CV surgeon for 3 years. Idaho Falls had their first CV surgeon almost 30 years ago, but actively doing heart surgeries 20 years ago. The programs are not comparable. One I.F. cardiologist alone stopped counting after his 25,000th cardiac cath. Has Pocatello even had 25K caths performed by all cardiologists numbers added together? I don't think so.

Read the Idaho State Journal. I don't need to go into much detail here as the bloggers at Pocatelloshops.com (under General and Portneuf MC) more than make my points, plus others I'm electing to not include.

And it's not just heart the heart program - I could mention a White House Selected, Trauma Designated Hospital in Idaho Falls and what that means for medical and nursing staff compared to Neurosurgeons in Pocatello who refuse to do trauma work or intercranial procedures, so patients have to go to Idaho Falls, Boise, Ogden or Salt Lake for intercranial procedures. Additionally, Psychiatry, NICU, Orthopedics, MFM with highi risk deliveries and so many other medical areas where Pocatello can't begin to compete with what exists in Idaho Falls and has for so many years.

Where Pocatello does have the edge, per a Idaho State Journal posting last week, is with the 19% of the population totally uninsured compared to Idaho Falls.

It is not my goal to have a debate about exactly how many nursing jobs or what programs are in place in each respective city. However, given the crystal clear census data about the difference in population, and knowing what programs do and don't exist in each city, I feel it is misleading to others not living in the area, to not report facts. Those looking to relocate may or may not know what various hospitals exist, and the services each offer in the area.

The Idaho State Journal has been crystal clear about how Portneuf is closing services. Don't people who may remember Pocatello in the days when Bannock Regional and even Pocatello Regional existed as they were then, compared to what exists today (or no longer exists, as the case may be), deserve to know the truth? I can't pretend opportunities, and in the words of others, even the level of "care provided" is the same in both cities.

Look at the PROPOSED new beds for the "new" Portneuf MC in Pocatello and tell me how much smaller that facility will be when and if it is completed in 2012, than EIRMC is today at 351 beds (with an expansion already announced for a major new and badly needed service in eastern ID.).

I may have misinterpreted what you wrote about ISU needing nurses. Perhaps you are refering to a turnover in nursing staff at ISU, or the RN program expansion. I can absolutely back you on that one, as ISU is opening an RN program in Idaho Falls, and what faculty they have either is going to be stretched way toooooo thin, or others must be recruited. So in that sense, there are academic opportunities for nurses. I don't know if they will be based out of ISU-Pocatello or ISU-Idaho Falls, though, for the expansion program in Idaho Falls.

ISU nurses already rotate through EIRMC and other Idaho Falls facilities as part of their training, so I don't know if ISU plans to shift more of the nursing faculty to Idaho Falls or not, with the new building in I.F. and more students in I.F.. I'm certain faculty positions would require a Masters after a BSN, at the minimum.

Please clarify what I might have misunderstood in your post as I want to make sure the most accurate information possible is being printed here.
There was a day when the two cities were almost identical in population and had more similar medical staffs and medical programs. But, much has changed since then.

I ask for clarification, because if it were me, I would want to know the truth from people who could tell me, vs. what I might find on a hospital web site. Consequently, I feel I must do the same for others looking at jobs where I know far more than I can write here. Nonetheless, I can give facts and references so readers can reach their own conclusions.

Thanks in advance, PW72, for your clarifications and what I might have misunderstood.

[mamort]

I'm not going to argue wages. Here's my personal experience. I worked ICU and cardiac step down in Rexburg and IF. I've worked ER in NY, ICU and ER in Salt Lake area and also worked in Phoenix AZ. I loved the environment and the people I worked with in Idaho far more than the other areas...but the pay is not competitive. I've been home being "mom" for the last 2 years, so maybe things have suddenly changed...but that was my experience up to that point.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by mamort

I'm not going to argue wages. Here's my personal experience. I worked ICU and cardiac step down in Rexburg and IF. I've worked ER in NY, ICU and ER in Salt Lake area and also worked in Phoenix AZ. I loved the environment and the people I worked with in Idaho far more than the other areas...but the pay is not competitive. I've been home being "mom" for the last 2 years, so maybe things have suddenly changed...but that was my experience up to that point.

Mamort,

My intent is certainly not to argue or debate your past employment. I've recently sent some adds to friends for RN positions. Salaries of up to 67K in Idaho Falls, for certain RN positions, is more than I've seen advertised in UT for the same. But, I may not have looked at the right hospital chain etc.

Probably, your work in NY would have a totally different "payscale" compared to the Intermountain West, given the costs. Or at least I believe that would be accurate.

I don't know where you worked in NY. Recently, I saw an article about the accurate population and compensation for employees in a specific area of NY State. Not being in NY state or having worked there, I'm not sure why it's even an issue, but just thought I'd mention it.

It's probably best I say I assume, but don't know for sure how different the pay scales MAY be in the east vs. the Intermountain West.

I appreciate you sharing your experiences....shared some of your info with the RN friend I mentioned above. You have a wealth of experience and practical knowledge of Rexburg, Idaho Falls, Salt Lake City and ?? in NY state. That is valuable to others in the nursing (and similar allied health fields).

Hopefully, you'll continue to post, as I believe many who work on Locums assignments, in particular, could benefit from your experience having worked in the three states, and cities, you've mentioned!