Advantages - Disadvantages Washington side or Idaho? (Coeur d'Alene, Cascade: home, construction)

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Wouldn't one have to pay income tax to ID on income earned in WA?

Yep, been there, done that.

[RetiredChef]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

The Spokane area is much drier than the Idaho side (unless you get up to Elk or Newport or something). Crime is MUCH higher in Spokane (and the surrounding area suffers from the spread).

Everything is relative from your own life experiences and where you moved from. We came from, like almost everybody else, California, the LA area and live north of Spokane. Crime is virtually non-existent compared to what we are used to.

When we bought our house the owners didn't even have keys for it because they never locked the doors in 20 years and they went away on vacation for weeks at a time.

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

WA is one of the most restrictive states on personal freedom (up there with CA and NY) where Idaho is one of the least restrictive (up there with NH and WY and MT).

HIGHLY disagree, WA is nothing like CA, either in gun laws, opening businesses, contractual affairs, housing codes, fire codes, etc you name it. Washington seems like the wild west when compared to CA.

Idaho may seem like total anarchy but not having some laws can be a real bummer, ID suffers in building codes and substandard construction. Many WA home builders work in ID and have higher profit margins because they can legally cut many corners, consumers are not protected without lemon laws and car dealers can add many bogus and fraudulent charges.

However WA is stupid in that we can't use cascade and we have the oppressive liquor taxes here and yes, comparing ID to WA, WA is more restrictive, but nothing like CA.

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

And the drivers are TERRIBLE in Spokane. (WA has a very substandard driver's training program and it shows in the average driver skill where ID drivers ranked among the best in the nation in a recent survey)

The driver training program in Washington and Idaho are virtually identical in length and requirements - check it out.

Again this might be a highly relative thing, visiting friends were hit in CDA by a Idaho driver when the ID person ran a stop sign. We were bumped/rear ended (no damage) when a ID driver slid on snow in WA.

I find the drivers in WA to be very courteous, sometimes too slow and generally pretty good. I would say the same about ID, except they seem to be more speed demons, ala CA style driving.

Biggest complaint about driving in Spokane is that when they want to turn right the move over to the left, blocking you from passing them, same thing when making a left turn. That would get you shot in LA!

5 years ago when we considered moving to CDA or Spokane area my insurance rates would have been higher in CDA then WA due to a higher claims rate according to my agent. So at least to one insurance company they correlate more accidents to the CDA side then the Spokane side.

This will be a never ending debate Idahoans love their state and Washingtonians love theirs.

The main reason I picked WA was NO STATE INCOME TAX plus we could get a big house, land, a great view and a feeling of rural living, 15 minutes from the big box stores for a lot less money then around CDA.

Plus we are pretty active and looking at all of the things that we do in downtown Spokane and the trips we make to the airport I think the driving would have gotten on our nerves. CDA just doesn't have the culture, restaurants, and activities that we like.

But hey, move to Idaho, Spokane's getting too crowded

[mistyriverranch]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I find the drivers in WA to be very courteous, sometimes too slow and generally pretty good. I would say the same about ID, except they seem to be more speed demons, ala CA style driving.

Having learned to drive in the Boston area and lived in numerous metropolitan areas since, Spokane drivers are pretty laid back comparatively speaking.
But, it's very easy to predict what plate a car will have as it bears down on you from behind and tailgates all the way up 57 to get to their lake home or vacation. And you know where the car comes from that's pulled over in Priest River for passing in a no-passing zone and doing 55 in a 35 mph zone. Washington.

[Sage of Sagle]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Everything is relative from your own life experiences and where you moved from. We came from, like almost everybody else, California, the LA area and live north of Spokane. Crime is virtually non-existent compared to what we are used to.

I'm not saying that the entire Spokane area is crime-ridden. However, when you compare crime stats (as I did before relocating here as a retired peace officer) it's immediately and abundantly clear that Spokane has a LOT of problems. It's not just an anecdotal belief I'm holding here....the numbers speak very loudly.

Here are the numbers from the annual FBI Uniform Crime Report (2007 numbers since 2008 report isn't final yet). NOTE: These are rates per 100,000 residents. In the UCR the CDA/Kootenai County reporting district had 136K residents. Spokane metro area had 451K residents. (For comparison, Bonner County including Sandpoint has 41K residents)

Overall Violent Crime
CDA/Kootenai County: 344
Spokane: 439 (36% higher)
Bonner/Sandpoint is 105

Murder
CDA/Koot: .7
Spokane: 3.1 (342% higher)
Bonner/Sandpoint was 2.4 (we had one murder in 2007)

Rape:
CDA/Koot: 53 (100% higher)
Spokane: 26
Bonner/SP: 10

Robbery:
CDA/Koot: 21
Spokane: 110 (450% higher)
Bonner/SP: 2.4

Felony Assault:
CDA/Koot: 269
Spokane: 300 (10% higher)
Bonner/SP: 91

Property Crime:
CDA/Koot: 2375
Spokane: 3808 (60% higher than CDA, and 42% higher than Los Angeles)
Bonner/SP: 1008

Burglary:
CDA/Koot: 505
Spokane: 742 (47% higher than CDA, and 34% higher than Los Angeles)
Bonner/SP: 223

Felony Theft:
CDA/Koot: 1717
Spokane: 2458 (43% higher than CDA, 61% higher than Los Angeles)
Bonner/SP: 691

Auto Theft:
CDA/Koot: 151
Spokane: 608 (303% higher)
Bonner/SP: 7
* NOTE: The Spokane metro area auto theft rate is HIGHER THAN LOS ANGELES. For comparison, Portland metro is 468, Boise metro is 189, Wenatchee is 170. But Seattle is 832 and Yakima is 804...so stealing cars is just the "thing to do" in Washington metro cities?

I'm not trying to bash you....I just think you enjoy your life there and don't realize that the crime in a LOT of places around you is REALLY high, although rape is higher in CDA/Kootenai County for sure.

HIGHLY disagree, WA is nothing like CA, either in gun laws, opening businesses, contractual affairs, housing codes, fire codes, etc you name it. Washington seems like the wild west when compared to CA.

Idaho may seem like total anarchy but not having some laws can be a real bummer, ID suffers in building codes and substandard construction. Many WA home builders work in ID and have higher profit margins because they can legally cut many corners, consumers are not protected without lemon laws and car dealers can add many bogus and fraudulent charges.

However WA is stupid in that we can't use cascade and we have the oppressive liquor taxes here and yes, comparing ID to WA, WA is more restrictive, but nothing like CA.

William P. Ruger and Jason Sorens from George Mason University have come out with a study called Freedom in the 50 States. In it, they calculate Fiscal, Regulatory, Economic, and Personal Freedom Rankings for each state. They then combine them into a single Overall Freedom Ranking.

http://mercatus.org/uploadedFiles/Me...0%20States.pdf

Note that Idaho is #4 (behind NH, CO, and SD) where Washington is #44 (WORSE than MA and IL...just 3 above CA).

I think this one comes down to you finding the more restrictive regulatory/economic environment to your liking...I don't consider it "anarchy" here in Idaho but you can have that view if you wish. Fair enough. Point made.

The driver training program in Washington and Idaho are virtually identical in length and requirements - check it out.


5 years ago when we considered moving to CDA or Spokane area my insurance rates would have been higher in CDA then WA due to a higher claims rate according to my agent. So at least to one insurance company they correlate more accidents to the CDA side then the Spokane side.

I will agree that my take on Spokane drivers is PURELY anecdotal, and concede the point. I noted that in the 2009 Allstate "America's Best Drivers" report Spokane was #34 while Boise was #9. But then that's not enough data on North Idahoans to be relevant to this discussion.

And I will concede that my biggest frustration with Washington drivers is driving well BELOW the speed limit and unpredictability while Idahoans drive faster and more aggressive. So I suppose that what I observe as a police officer is that while WA drivers seem to be less skilled, they drive slow enough that perhaps that is a very large mitigating factor.

With regard to driver training, when given standardized test questions in the 2008 GMAC survey, ID was 4th and WA was 9th overall, with the rust belt and New England folks faring the worst. Yet in an MSN Money survey, OR was #1, WA was #2, ID was #4. I would like to point out that "length and requirements" does not equate to competence (look at the California school system for an example).However, I will withdraw my assertion as the facts don't support my anecdotal experiences.

But I have to agree with you 100% that you should live where you THINK you want to live and it's only natural to think that where you live is the best place possible. Otherwise, why would we all live where we do?

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

I'm not saying that the entire Spokane area is crime-ridden. However, when you compare crime stats (as I did before relocating here as a retired peace officer) it's immediately and abundantly clear that Spokane has a LOT of problems. It's not just an anecdotal belief I'm holding here....the numbers speak very loudly.

Here are the numbers from the annual FBI Uniform Crime Report (2007 numbers since 2008 report isn't final yet). NOTE: These are rates per 100,000 residents. In the UCR the CDA/Kootenai County reporting district had 136K residents. Spokane metro area had 451K residents. (For comparison, Bonner County including Sandpoint has 41K residents)

Overall Violent Crime
CDA/Kootenai County: 344
Spokane: 439 (36% higher)
Bonner/Sandpoint is 105

Murder
CDA/Koot: .7
Spokane: 3.1 (342% higher)
Bonner/Sandpoint was 2.4 (we had one murder in 2007)

Rape:
CDA/Koot: 53 (100% higher)
Spokane: 26
Bonner/SP: 10

Robbery:
CDA/Koot: 21
Spokane: 110 (450% higher)
Bonner/SP: 2.4

Felony Assault:
CDA/Koot: 269
Spokane: 300 (10% higher)
Bonner/SP: 91

Property Crime:
CDA/Koot: 2375
Spokane: 3808 (60% higher than CDA, and 42% higher than Los Angeles)
Bonner/SP: 1008

Burglary:
CDA/Koot: 505
Spokane: 742 (47% higher than CDA, and 34% higher than Los Angeles)
Bonner/SP: 223

Felony Theft:
CDA/Koot: 1717
Spokane: 2458 (43% higher than CDA, 61% higher than Los Angeles)
Bonner/SP: 691

Auto Theft:
CDA/Koot: 151
Spokane: 608 (303% higher)
Bonner/SP: 7
* NOTE: The Spokane metro area auto theft rate is HIGHER THAN LOS ANGELES. For comparison, Portland metro is 468, Boise metro is 189, Wenatchee is 170. But Seattle is 832 and Yakima is 804...so stealing cars is just the "thing to do" in Washington metro cities?

I'm not trying to bash you....I just think you enjoy your life there and don't realize that the crime in a LOT of places around you is REALLY high, although rape is higher in CDA/Kootenai County for sure.

William P. Ruger and Jason Sorens from George Mason University have come out with a study called Freedom in the 50 States. In it, they calculate Fiscal, Regulatory, Economic, and Personal Freedom Rankings for each state. They then combine them into a single Overall Freedom Ranking.

http://mercatus.org/uploadedFiles/Me...0%20States.pdf

Note that Idaho is #4 (behind NH, CO, and SD) where Washington is #44 (WORSE than MA and IL...just 3 above CA).

I think this one comes down to you finding the more restrictive regulatory/economic environment to your liking...I don't consider it "anarchy" here in Idaho but you can have that view if you wish. Fair enough. Point made.

I will agree that my take on Spokane drivers is PURELY anecdotal, and concede the point. I noted that in the 2009 Allstate "America's Best Drivers" report Spokane was #34 while Boise was #9. But then that's not enough data on North Idahoans to be relevant to this discussion.

And I will concede that my biggest frustration with Washington drivers is driving well BELOW the speed limit and unpredictability while Idahoans drive faster and more aggressive. So I suppose that what I observe as a police officer is that while WA drivers seem to be less skilled, they drive slow enough that perhaps that is a very large mitigating factor.

With regard to driver training, when given standardized test questions in the 2008 GMAC survey, ID was 4th and WA was 9th overall, with the rust belt and New England folks faring the worst. Yet in an MSN Money survey, OR was #1, WA was #2, ID was #4. I would like to point out that "length and requirements" does not equate to competence (look at the California school system for an example).However, I will withdraw my assertion as the facts don't support my anecdotal experiences.

But I have to agree with you 100% that you should live where you THINK you want to live and it's only natural to think that where you live is the best place possible. Otherwise, why would we all live where we do?

Can't add to your reps, Sage. The ongoing problem which I think is software (best guess). Anyway, I think you make several valid points.

People should live where they feel like home is for them. There are many factors including where family members are, children (and what school options are available), occupation and need for workers trained in those fields, what one likes to do in time off, and in some ways, I think overall frustration level of where one moved from adds to the picture. What I mean is say DR, for example, knows what he absolutely can't stand any more given where he is. So some areas of the country, or some states, may look better given that that state doesn't have a problem with X (whatever the person finds intolerable and reason enough to move).

By no means is my list inclusive of all reasons to relocate. Just a few.

Thanks for the sources of various stats. That should be helpful to all. I'd like to suggest that perhaps you start a new thread with "Sources for Stats about Idaho," or something similar. While CD does provide some, people like me don't know the best sources of information and some of us geeks (no offense to anyone, mostly a comment about me and others who review data) do analyze charts and info when making changes.

I can't say which side of the Idaho/Washington line is best, as I do believe it depends on personal/family need (s). However, I'll say it is good that anyone wishing to relocate, who can, has a choice of where to next call home. That is a freedom we enjoy in the U.S., which unfortunately is not shared worldwide.

Great post.

MSR

[bigbob25]

In my opinion not matter what any one say (IDONT LIKE IDAHO) it stinks, and the majority of the people are rude and drive just as bad as spokane unless your out in the middle of no wheres(idahoans love to tailgate and i dont know if their in a rush or being nosey ) , the jobs stink , the economy stinks and people are down right unfriendly especially the men , the women arent to bad at all, and the taxes are lower but id say if i had to do it again id have went to spokane or back to montana, Damn people dont buy a home in idaho hahaha itll take you 25 years to sell it and then you gotta worry about the 50 scavengers talking you down to nothing and thats if your lucky , I mean if you see a millionaire like black rock auctioning things off the ecnomy here is in the toilets , its very very conservative too, almost to the point it just ruins the area and makes it very hard to survive or have any real fun as your always worried about surviving financially, now let me explain again to people who cry im singling out others im not these are what i see and experinace so people can make afair judgement on whether or not they wanna move here or not I dont feel its as nice as people blow it up to be nothing close to Montana or washington where you can thrive not go broke. Idahos got some deep seeded problems with its conservative attitude which has an overall effect on its economy . If people arent going to open up to new ideas and new success and quit treating the little guy like hog wash then its no place for me i need culture , deversity, and openmindness , fairness and most off all to support my kids money and business aka thrive , succesfully supporting your kids is what makes a father feel good about them selves not going broke and being stuck in a place you hate. My honest opnion is too many Calfornians have came here and ruined it beyond repair . Only place i in 47 years woke up not wanting to wake up its like oh here we go again idaho Evetually ill be back where i came from Montana where the california attitude doesnt change the area like it did here , its ruined the area

[mistyriverranch]

Originally Posted by bigbob25

In my opinion not matter what any one say (IDONT LIKE IDAHO) it stinks, and the majority of the people are rude and drive just as bad as spokane unless your out in the middle of no wheres(idahoans love to tailgate and i dont know if their in a rush or being nosey ) , the jobs stink , the economy stinks and people are down right unfriendly especially the men , the women arent to bad at all, and the taxes are lower but id say if i had to do it again id have went to spokane or back to montana, Damn people dont buy a home in idaho hahaha itll take you 25 years to sell it and then you gotta worry about the 50 scavengers talking you down to nothing and thats if your lucky , I mean if you see a millionaire like black rock auctioning things off the ecnomy here is in the toilets , its very very conservative too, almost to the point it just ruins the area and makes it very hard to survive or have any real fun as your always worried about surviving financially, now let me explain again to people who cry im singling out others im not these are what i see and experinace so people can make afair judgement on whether or not they wanna move here or not I dont feel its as nice as people blow it up to be nothing close to Montana or washington where you can thrive not go broke. Idahos got some deep seeded problems with its conservative attitude which has an overall effect on its economy . If people arent going to open up to new ideas and new success and quit treating the little guy like hog wash then its no place for me i need culture , deversity, and openmindness , fairness and most off all to support my kids money and business aka thrive , succesfully supporting your kids is what makes a father feel good about them selves not going broke and being stuck in a place you hate. My honest opnion is too many Calfornians have came here and ruined it beyond repair . Only place i in 47 years woke up not wanting to wake up its like oh here we go again idaho Evetually ill be back where i came from Montana where the california attitude doesnt change the area like it did here , its ruined the area

I prolly wouldn't say this if you weren't so anti-Idaho, but dude...seriously..use some punctuation.

[Trace_Rinaldi]

Originally Posted by mistyriverranch

I prolly wouldn't say this if you weren't so anti-Idaho, but dude...seriously..use some punctuation.

Buahahahahaha BTW I couldnt disagree MORE with "Bigbob"....

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Idaho is the less restrictive of the two states. A couple examples:

Idaho gun laws allow ownership of NFA weapons (machine guns, SBRs) as long as you follow the federal requirements, WA does not. Idaho allows carrying of a loaded weapon in a vehicle (without a permit) as long as it's not concealed, WA does not.

WAs laws concerning ATVs are kind of strange. Even on forest service roads, there are many that do not allow their operation. And they are restricted on county roads, unless the county specifically permits them. ID allows them on all forest service roads and country roads, unless the county passes specific restrictions.

Hunting opportunities are greater in Idaho.

Have you been watching the news on Spokane politics? They have some looney far-left groups that really want to socialize the city.

Many people in Eastern WA seem to associate themselves more closely with NID than Western WA. Unfortunately the politics of Western WA create a stench over the whole state.

[mistyriverranch]

I think we need a new state: Wantanaho.
Eastern WA, western MT and north ID. Has a nice ring to it. I don't think we'd have much of a tax base though. Not so much money to pay the politicos. What a shame.