Advantages - Disadvantages Washington side or Idaho? (Boise, Coeur d'Alene: codes, garden)

[RetiredChef]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Auto Theft:
CDA/Koot: 151
Spokane: 608 (303% higher)
Bonner/SP: 7
* NOTE: The Spokane metro area auto theft rate is HIGHER THAN LOS ANGELES.

You seem to be in a great deal of fear about crime, a small amount of paranoia is okay to keep your senses sharp but most of your comments about Spokane are ridiculous.

In order to think that Spokane has a large crime problem you probably think that Andy Griffith and Barney Fife needed a SWAT team to help them out in Mayberry.

I can fully understand some country hick who thinks Sandpoint is a BIG city might get intimidated because Spokane has more then a couple of traffic lights but lets be honest, if you have come from any city that has 200,000 or more people in it, then Spokane is about as scary as a petting zoo.

There has been a lot of misinformation, cherry picking of data and downright disingenuous comments put forth on this board, especially by people who should know better. The way individual police departments report crimes are not universal so the FBI statistics are not necessarily showing an accurate comparison. Many agencies will downplay crimes due to political pressures, while others will play them to get more funding. There is a tremendous amount of politics involved in the reporting.

The bottom line if you want to use the FBI statistics use the with a grain of salt and a little intelligence.

You have been told that Spokane has tremendous amount of auto thefts, but again you gave no context, Spokane is the second largest city in the state but is behind in auto thefts per capita of Yakima, Tacoma, etc. And if you talk to the insurance reporting agencies they tell you that Spokane does not have an unusually high car theft rate.

Did Spokanians just forget to report these car thefts to their insurance agencies?????

Again common sense is needed.

I also challenge your statistics: Here is the list that I see over and over again.

U.S. Cities with the Highest Auto Theft Rates
**Results are calculated on a scale of thefts per 100,000 people

1. Modesto, California
Total Thefts: 4,235
Rate per 100,000: 829

2. Laredo, Texas
Total Thefts: 1,960
Rate per 100,000: 827

3. Yakima, Washington
Total Thefts: 1,828
Rate per 100,000: 779

4. San Diego/Carlsbad/San Marcos, California
Total Thefts: 22,554
Rate per 100,000: 751

5. Bakersfield, California
Total Thefts: 5,918
Rate per 100,000: 739

6. Stockton, California
Total Thefts: 4,963
Rate per 100,000: 738

7. Las Vegas/Paradise, Nevada
Total Thefts: 13,662
Rate per 100,000: 732

8. Albuquerque, New Mexico
Total Thefts: 6,182
Rate per 100,000: 730

9. San Francisco/Oakland/Freemont, California
Total Thefts: 30,735
Rate per 100,000: 719

10. Fresno, California
Total Thefts: 6,533
Rate per 100,000: 718

11. Visalia-Porterville, California
12. Detroit, Michigan
13. Tucson, Arizona
14. Sacramento, California
15. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
16. El Centro, California
17. El Paso, Texas
18. Vallejo, California
19. Phoenix, Arizona
20. Eugene, Oregon
21. San Bernardino, California
22. Columbus, Ohio
23. Miami, Florida
24. Los Angeles, California
25. New Orleans, Louisiana

States with the Highest and Lowest Auto Theft Rates - Family Car Guide

Hmmm, Los Angeles, is 24 and Spokane is nowhere to be found in the top 25.

If however you wish to take the FBI statistics as sacrosanct then we can all find one reassuring note from the FBI.

With NO cherry picking of data the FBI says that Spokane is BELOW average in the number of violent crimes compared to cities of it’s size.

Violent crimes are what really matters to most people, since these are the crimes that hurt, maim, kill and scar people for life. And using the FBI as the Holy grail we can see that all the hyperbole about Spokane being a rough and tumble city is farcically wrong. Of course anybody living here could tell you that.

PS I fully understand that this is highly relative and subjective and there are those people who get freaked out by anyone who is different then them or unknown to them - Spokane is certainly the most diverse city around, but basing feelings on your irrational fears and possible prejudices is out of date with modern society - just a thought people.

As I’ve said before if you are coming from a large metro area Spokane will be as wild as a petting zoo, if you coming from a seculded area, like, Algoma, ID, it can be pretty intimidating.

[boisefan88]

Agreed.

As is the rule with statistics, context is absolutely necessary.

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

PS I fully understand that this is highly relative and subjective and there are those people who get freaked out by anyone who is different then them or unknown to them - Spokane is certainly the most diverse city around, but basing feelings on your irrational fears and possible prejudices is out of date with modern society - just a thought people.

You are on a roll Chef!

I've noticed that you like the words "hyperbole" and words derived from "farce". You've used them on me before.

[Sage of Sagle]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

You seem to be in a great deal of fear about crime, a small amount of paranoia is okay to keep your senses sharp but most of your comments about Spokane are ridiculous.

In order to think that Spokane has a large crime problem you probably think that Andy Griffith and Barney Fife needed a SWAT team to help them out in Mayberry.

I can fully understand some country hick who thinks Sandpoint is a BIG city might get intimidated because Spokane has more then a couple of traffic lights but lets be honest, if you have come from any city that has 200,000 or more people in it, then Spokane is about as scary as a petting zoo.

PS I fully understand that this is highly relative and subjective and there are those people who get freaked out by anyone who is different then them or unknown to them - Spokane is certainly the most diverse city around, but basing feelings on your irrational fears and possible prejudices is out of date with modern society - just a thought people.

As I’ve said before if you are coming from a large metro area Spokane will be as wild as a petting zoo, if you coming from a seculded area, like, Algoma, ID, it can be pretty intimidating.

Really? I'm some ignorant country hick devoid of common sense or genuine intent? Really?...

The problem with assuming that someone is an ignorant country hick and then taking to dressing someone down in such a smug manner is that you spend much of your time making unflattering statements about a person's character and intelligence and little time actually making a cohesive argument beyond providing your own stats that at best help your straw man argument.

I am a retired cop from Los Angeles County. I worked in gang intelligence and special enforcement, patrol division, legal headquarters division, and special operations (including statistical compilation and interpretation), and I'm fully aware of the politics surrounding crime reporting. I'm thinking that you're probably picking on the wrong person to prove your point about law enforcement and crime reporting since this is an area about which I have considerable experience and expertise.

While various statistics are reported that can conflict, I tend to go with the FBI UCR as I believe it to be a reporting system that encourages/allows LESS of an agenda than many others. It has the best standardized data submission methodology of anything I saw, and was consistently refined to improve the accuracy of reporting and encourage departmental cooperation. You obviously disagree, and you believe I'm disingenuous and completely lacking in common sense. We will have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe I said that Spokane ranked highly in violent crime compared to other cities of its size, rather comparing it to North Idaho per the OP's post.. In fact, I indicated that rape is higher on the Idaho side even though it's LESS populated. What I did say, and I continue to reiterate, is that Spokane's property crime rate is extremely high compared to nearby areas. Look...I'm not saying Spokane is worse than other Washington cities and in fact I noted that other WA cities also had high auto theft rates. I AM saying that Spokane is MUCH HIGHER in crime than the Idaho side in several critical areas and you're just bereft of common sense if you are trying to defend Spokane as being a "moderate crime" area compared to North Idaho on the whole.

This isn't about irrational fears and prejudices. This is about reality, of which you appear to need a very large dose. We saw this frequently with people who have strong views and personal anecdotal experiences that otherwise do not give them any experience with what's really going on. Normally the best thing for a resident of an area to have their eyes opened is to contact the police department and request to go on a ride along. Talk to the officer and other cops on the shift. Get a sense of the problems with the community. THEN come back and try to speak a bit more sensibly than in dressing me down for being some stupid country hick. That's just common sense...

Here are my closing thoughts;
1) Mayberry 2009 probably needs a SWAT team for serving search warrants on meth dealers and bangers. Good thing Spokane has one...
2) The fact that Yakima and other cities have higher auto theft than Spokane just make those places worse, not Spokane better. (Let's apply some logic here, ok?)
3) Just because people don't report stolen cars to their insurance companies doesn't alter the statistic. it means they only have state-minimum liability-only coverage. This is common in poorer areas. so the UCR will show higher auto theft because it takes no input from insurance company theft claims. And Spokane had a higher TOTAL NUMBER of auto theft crime reports (by rate per 100K) than Los Angeles in 2007. (2008 data is incomplete at this point). You can't "fake" these reports, and it's NOT subjective. Either a person files a felony vehicle theft report or they don't. It's not like in Los Angeles people are coming in saying "Oh...I only want to file a misdemeanor auto theft report" or in Spokane the cops are talking people into filing more auto theft reports.
4) In petting zoos, the animals don't steal anything not bolted down and sell it for drugs. Somehow I thought you would have known that.

Oh...and as the moderator I'm keeping a thick skin here. But your next personal attack on me will have more negative results. 'Nuff said...

[Sage of Sagle]

One other thing, RetiredChef...

Don't you live NORTH of Spokane (I'm assuming in a more rural area)? That would be like me living in Malibu, Calabasas, or La Canada arguing on behalf of Los Angeles crime rate data...I really must be missing something...

[RetiredChef]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

One other thing, RetiredChef...

Don't you live NORTH of Spokane (I'm assuming in a more rural area)? That would be like me living in Malibu, Calabasas, or La Canada arguing on behalf of Los Angeles crime rate data...I really must be missing something...

You are:

Malibu is 35 miles to the West of Los Angeles I am 3 miles to the North-North-East of Spokane.

3 Miles outside of Los Angeles would put me around Alameda, City Terrace or Silver Lake area.

35 Miles from Spokane would put me at Davenport, Hayden Lake or Newport Id.

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Oh...and as the moderator I'm keeping a thick skin here. But your next personal attack on me will have more negative results. 'Nuff said...

Your threat has been noted and I forwarded it to a senior moderator.

To insinuate that I issued a personal attack by calling you a country hick is WRONG - that was a general comment about someone who has ONLY lived in a very small community and then visits Spokane. Since you lived in Los Angeles the comment obviously was not intended at you.

Also the two personal attacks you issued against me were also noted to the senior moderator.

But I'm not the judge nor the jury here - am I.

[Sandpointian]

Originally Posted by boisefan88

Agreed.

As is the rule with statistics, context is absolutely necessary.

Is this not about Washington v. Idaho? No need for discussion on Spokane in general.

One must remember that from the POV of NID, Spokane IS the big, bad city.

So yes, context is very important.

S.

[RetiredChef]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

Is this not about Washington v. Idaho? No need for discussion on Spokane in general.

The original question was to compare Spokane to just over the border in Idaho.

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

One must remember that from the POV of NID, Spokane IS the big, bad city.

If the NID has only resided in small towns then Spokane is a BIG BAD CITY, you are exactly right.

I've been trying to make this point all along - but if the person is relocating from Seattle, NYC, Dallas, Chicago, Los Angeles, Phoenix, ETC - any large metropolitan area, then Spokane seems tiny and benign.

The poster here wanted a comparison and one side is painting the NID view and I have been painting the large metropolitan person who moved to Spokane because it was small and tame.

It all boils down to your life experiences and I think it is best to show both sides of the story and let the poster decide.

[Sandpointian]

Va bene

[Syringaloid]

What is with this Spokane and Sandpoint argument?
When I visited both I felt that Sandpoint was more progressive and vibrant than Spokane. While I didn't feel Sandpoint felt hick I did get the hick vibe in Spokane.
Honestly this coming from a Boisean----I would not travel north to visit Spokane on vacation because I feel there is more in the Boise area to enjoy. If I was going north it would be to see Sandpoint and Coeur d'Alene and Wallace and the lakes and the rest of North Idaho and Spokane might be worked into a side trip if there was time.