Official Discussion on the Mormon/LDS influence in Idaho (Boise: low crime, fit in)

[CedarCityUtahRez]

Is Twin Falls similar in LDS influence to Cedar City, UT?? I like the family values of LDS. It has happened, in my neighborhood, that most LDS children play with the other LDS children from their Wards and they have social activities there...so they really don't have a need/want for non-LDS friends. And, there are a couple of parents that would strictly prefer no real friendship interaction with non-LDS kids, in my area.

[brokencrayola]

Originally Posted by CedarCityUtahRez

Is Twin Falls similar in LDS influence to Cedar City, UT?? I like the family values of LDS. It has happened, in my neighborhood, that most LDS children play with the other LDS children from their Wards and they have social activities there...so they really don't have a need/want for non-LDS friends. And, there are a couple of parents that would strictly prefer no real friendship interaction with non-LDS kids, in my area.

Twin Falls will probably not be as bad as Cedar City is but you will still have those issues. I used to live in S. Idaho and now live in N. Idaho and there are no issues like this here in the northern part of the state.

[Artemesia]

This thread is a little older but since I'm new I would like to get in on this conversation. I live in S. Utah on the weekends and LV during the week till my husband and I can retire and move (hopefully to Spokane area) in a few years. One of the reasons we're considering leaving a very beautiful place in Utah is because of the narrowness of the Mormon culture. I know this perspective isn't the case everywhere, but as a former LDS person, with a huge family that's still LDS, I understand both sides of the fence. I go home to S.Utah on the weekends and am in awe of the backward ignorance that seems to prevail in community events, in the local talk, and other activities. I do love my LDS neighbors and some of them I consider true friends, but overall I'm so weary of the ignorant narrow perspective that limits the view of anything outside "The Zion Curtain".

I put up a Barack Obama sign in front of my cabin and you'ld have thought I sprouted horns and a forked tail. To suggest that I would go for anyone besides the plastic hairdo of Mitt Romney was as close to wearing a scarlet A on my chest as a modern woman can get in some Utah communities. At a recent funeral in S. Idaho I made the mistake of wearing a little Barack Obama insignia on my jacket. It was a similar reaction, only more vocal.

As much as I love my family and some of my neighbors, I crave to live where having an idea or thought or interest that doesn't fit in some tight little McMormon box doesn't incite a public witch trial or send me to the town stocks to be chastized. On the good side, in Utah I'm eccentric and exotic because I wear a tank top and shorts and wash my car on Sunday while the Mormons file past dutifully on their way to three hrs. of block meetings in a brown brick bland building. In Washington I might just be ordinary. I think that might be nice.

[jufrbo]

Why in the hell would you make a political statement at a funeral?

[Artemesia]

It wasn't a political statement. It was a jacket given me as a gift by fellow Obama supporters and I wore it to the dinner after the funeral because it was freaking cold and I needed the extra layer. Its a black fleece jacket and the insignia is very subtle, but was enough to cause a stir among the devout defensive Mitt-an-ites and I just about got run out of town. Soo JustfromBoise, would you have been one of those defensive types that runs non Mitt lovers out of town as well? Boise isn't known as a bastion of liberal thought either but the further one moves away from the Utah border the more one hopes to be allowed individual thought. Maybe Boise isn't even far enough. Please tell me you were just "funnin" me with your accusatory tone.

[twinprism]

<snip>

Originally Posted by Artemesia

I know this perspective isn't the case everywhere, but as a former LDS person, with a huge family that's still LDS, I understand both sides of the fence.

As much as I love my family and some of my neighbors, I crave to live where having an idea or thought or interest that doesn't fit in some tight little McMormon box doesn't incite a public witch trial or send me to the town stocks to be chastized. On the good side, in Utah I'm eccentric and exotic because I wear a tank top and shorts and wash my car on Sunday while the Mormons file past dutifully on their way to three hrs. of block meetings in a brown brick bland building. In Washington I might just be ordinary. I think that might be nice.

Artemesia,

My background is similar to yours, and your description made me laugh out loud. It is almost exactly my experience growing up in Blackfoot, Idaho.

I've found a place where I'm much more ordinary, and interestingly it's only 30 minutes away from where I grew up. The LDS church still has influence here in Pocatello, but depending on what part of town you live in, Mormons aren't the majority, so the group-think is not so bad. I think even Blackfoot has improved as more "outsiders" have discovered this place. Long live diversity.

[Artemesia]

I just saw a temple on the hill in Spokane. That means there is at least a population of 100,000 LDS within a 200 mile radius so there are probably plenty in Eastern Washington or N. Idaho anyway. Individually I find many/most Mormons to be very wonderful people with great families, nice in every way, etc. but for a variety of reasons the group mentality is offensive. As a former LDS person, and a fairly devout one I remember the indoctrination and subtle messages that permeate the thought processes. Every non member is a potential "Golden Prospect" and if they spurn your attempts to bring them into the fold then the Mormons move on to the next more pliable victim, but this sends out a message that all the friendliness, the invitations, the "inadvertant" visits were just for the secret purpose of seducing you into their fold. The instant rejection after one makes it clear they are not interested in the religion is so shameful that I find myself embarassed to have once called myself LDS.

The quirkiness of the religion aside, it's sometimes hard to live among the LDS if you're not "One of them" and it's frustrating to try to infuse an LDS community with any culture, thought, art, or idea that isn't generally supported by the McMasses. For that reason, and the continued drought, I'm slowly considering moving to the NW where water and intellectual diversity seem to grow more abundantly.

BTW, I was born in Pocatello. It was sort of an accident (not me, but the birth... well, I and my 8 bros and sisters were all accidents but that's another story). Dad had sent Mom $100.00 and said, "I found a job in Oregon. Pack everything up and get up here". Mom, being the obedient LDS woman she is/was loaded up my 4 brothers, my 9 month old Irish twin sister, and waddled out to the truck and headed up from Utah to Oregon. The freeway hadn't been completed yet so she had to go through Pocatello to get to the hwy that headed west. While in Pocatello I decided I'd had enough and in a sort of messy truck stop moment, I was born. The police came and insisted my mom take the rest of the day off and put the family up in a motel. The state social services insisted I get an official birth certificate from Idaho before they'd let my mom take me out of state, so BING, I am an Idahoan and have the calves to prove it. The next day mom loaded us up and drove the rest of the way to Oregon where we lived till I was 12.

[twinprism]

Artemesia,

Great story and interesting history. Good luck on your move if you decide to do it. There are wonderful places to live in the Spokane area.

I appreciate your honest and very articulate description of your experiences. I think that is one of the best descriptions of what it is like for some of us who are non-LDS living in a LDS area.

For what it's worth, I think people are way more open to living with other ideas when the percentage of like minded individuals decrease. I have notice a huge difference between Blackfoot (~80% LDS) and Pocatello (~40% LDS), 25 miles apart. The somewhat liberal influence of Idaho State University, and added diversity it brings helps too. That is one thing I miss in the other SE Idaho cities I visit.

I too have been the recipient of the "visits". When I first moved into my new neighborhood people from "the Ward" dropped by all the time. I made it clear I'd be glad to talk with them as neighbors anytime they liked, but I wasn't interested in religious lessons as I was already familiar with the religion being a former deacon and teachers quorum president. . Never saw them again, though some will still wave on the street.

I guess I don't take it too personally, they were only there because the church asked them too (or my large LDS family did), and once I made it clear I wasn't interested in their assignment, they could cross me off their list. One less thing to do. No big deal. I don't try to push my ideas on them and they don't push them on me. In a smaller town it could be a big deal though, as there is a limited choice of other open-minded associates because they don't have to open their mind. You are absolutely right about some of the subtle messages and indoctrination and I think it could be a leading cause of this "problem". I've been of both sides of one of my "favorites". "You can't associate with them because they don't have the same standards we do." grrrrr. I hope my sarcasm comes across here. As I've said before, I don't think it is anything nefarious, but it is learned behavior, which can be unlearned.

I know I'm probably not describing my experiences well, but it's hard to know how an area can grow and develop and I think it is dynamic and each area might be somewhat unique due to the leading personalities. I admire the recently deceased LDS President Hinckley and his work in encouraging members of his church to reach out to non-mormons, not as potential converts but as neighbors and discouraged isolationism.

Once any religion becomes a majority of the population, they can try to assimilate or exclude others without as much thought to how to get along and interact with the rest of the community. I hope anyone who reads this, LDS or not, thinks about how they treat their neighbors and tries to improve their relationships without any regard to external motives.

[Artemesia]

Hello Twinprism and others who read these things. THankyou for your post and response to my thoughts. It's interesting when I find others who've experienced similar things because it helps me feel like I wasn't crazy, didn't mis-understand, wasn't wrong for percieving things the way I did. Not that I need everyone to agree with me but sometimes when you live in Utah, or among a lot of LDS you are singled out if you think even a little outside the box. THe social repurcussions are very painful. When you mentioned that you're seen as not having the same "Moral" standards I had to laugh.

It's assumed that if you like your caffine warm or even hot that you probably also imbibe in hard liquor, participate in wild orgys, and probably have kiddy porn on your wide screen tv in your basement lair where you've got a whole stash of pot and a meth lab as well. I drink coffee and watch IFC. That makes me immoral? Does that make my reverence for the teachings of Christ any less valid than someone who sips their Dr. Pepper from a brown paper bag when no one is looking?

When I was in HS and a young man would go through all the efforts to get lucky or come close to getting lucky I would get irritated. It wasn't really me that he wanted to get all jiggy with, but to be able to brag that he'd added just one more notch to his belt. I think in some ways it feels similarly when the LDS pretend friendship just so they can chalk you up on their "Activated, or baptized" belt and have bragging rights, but once you've been used, they move on. If you don't put out it gets passed around that you're probably the equivilant of a lesbian (nevermormon). (Not that there's anything wrong with that).

If someone wants to get to know me because they perceive my talents, my work, personality, etc. are interesting and worthy of more interest, then by all means come by with a tater tot casserole and some green jello with pears in it and set up a play date with my kids (they're grown but they still like to play). If you love my garden, come on down. I'll discuss deer repellant, bug be-gone, and mulch till the cows come home. If you saw my Barack sign in the window and want to know if he's really a muslim crack cocaine dealer who sold meth to Oprah at a Madrassas in the third grade in Iran, I'll be happy to show you some interesting factual information and let you balance it yourself. If you want to discuss the value of finding spirituality in ones life, bring it on. I'll show you pictures of my trip to the Grand Canyon which I'm sure is proof of a living and loving God.

If you need my meager wages to increase the coffers of the church, too dang bad. I have lots of priorities and that isn't one of them. If you have a humanitarian project that has a ligitimate organization behind it, call me, I can donate in $5-$20.00 increments 4 or 5 times a year and I love to give of my time. If you want me to sit on a folding chair for three hrs. and listen to some Dry Counsel geezer drone on about the length of proper summer shorts or some pimply teenager read straight out of the Ensign while I fantasize about sorting my sock drawer, you're smokin something. I did that for 37 years. I aint going back.

[twinprism]

Great post... I'm glad my experience isn't that bad! I was only "on the inside" for the first 15 years of my life, so perhaps I didn't have as much invested, as I seem to be much less bitter than many ex-mormons I know. Not to say you are bitter, I just laughed as I think only some one who has been there can. Great analogies.

I'm also glad Mitt-mania was never an issue here. Barack Obama is a respected and leading candidate at least in my neck of the woods. Did you know in our democratic caucus at the time Idaho chose Obama by the largest margin of any state so far? The Obama rally in Boise had 18,000 people in a packed arena, and I know several who made the 3.5 hour drive.

There I go off topic again.. I'll shut up.

There are democrats in Red State Idaho... wow!