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Old 06-11-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
9,683 posts, read 13,160,740 times
Reputation: 13553
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
You say nobody supports illegal immigration yet tell everyone we can't remove those illegally here?

Isn't that supporting it? It is in my book.
It is in every rational person's book.

People who are here illegally are here as criminals. They violated the laws of our Federal Government. It is the Fed's job to protect us from foreign invasion.

If they found a way to infiltrate our society, then they can surely find a way back to whence they came. Crack down on employers of illegals, halt benefits, and arrest and deport those who come into contact with LE. There is no need for this silly notion that we have to search homes door-to-door to rid our country of the majority of illegals.

When life isn't sustainable for an interloper, they will have no choice but to return to where they belong.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,898 posts, read 5,960,843 times
Reputation: 3921
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
The Federal Government is not being 'actively prevented' from enforcing our immigration laws - yet they are failing to do so in spades. Can you explain why that is?
Because it has limited resources and spends them where they will hopefully do the most good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me
And why on earth should we reform our immigration system?
Perhaps because the current system has managed to create 11.5 million illegal immigrants? Would that be at least one good reason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me
Let's begin by enforcing our current laws, and then we can see what needs to happen in the best interest of the US, and the citizens of the US.
Great plan. You gonna pay for that?
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
9,683 posts, read 13,160,740 times
Reputation: 13553
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Because it has limited resources and spends them where they will hopefully do the most good.


Perhaps because the current system has managed to create 11.5 million illegal immigrants? Would that be at least one good reason?


Great plan. You gonna pay for that?
Your answers prove you are clearly misinformed about this subject.

1. You can't possibly believe your first answer - unless you are fatally naive or dull.

2. The current system did not "create" 11.5 million illegal aliens - the lack of enforcement did.

3. Yes - I will pay for it, along with the rest of the taxpayers of CA. We can start by taking the near $4 BILLION we spend annually to educate illegals to start funding.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7,047 posts, read 2,673,642 times
Reputation: 3120
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
You say nobody supports illegal immigration yet tell everyone we can't remove those illegally here?

Isn't that supporting it? It is in my book.
Now I understand where you're coming from. Let's say you have a mexican field worker who came here in 1988. He has worked the fields and picked your lettuce, corn and mellons for years. He gets married, has kids and has been supporting his family. You are the heartless faction that says, he should have immediate deportation and loose everything he has worked for his whole adult life. You are entitled to your beliefs but I tell you they go against Christian morality, social conscience and historical, American tradition. I suggest you leave your unbridled hate at the door and develop a wider focus that encompasses compassion.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:33 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
9,683 posts, read 13,160,740 times
Reputation: 13553
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Now I understand where you're coming from. Let's say you have a mexican field worker who came here in 1988. He has worked the fields and picked your lettuce, corn and mellons for years. He gets married, has kids and has been supporting his family. You are the heartless faction that says, he should have immediate deportation and loose everything he has worked for his whole adult life. You are entitled to your beliefs but I tell you they go against Christian morality, social conscience and historical, American tradition. I suggest you leave your unbridled hate at the door and develop a wider focus that encompasses compassion.
It's all about Mexicans for you, isn't it? You seem to think illegal immigration is exclusively a Mexican thing - or maybe you're just protective of the Mexican illegals. Either way, you've shown the board that you have some bias toward illegal Mexicans. But that's ok - we see this phenomenon in the criminal supporters all the time. How funny that someone like you who has shown their ethnic bias is accusing others of "unbridled hate". But we've seen that a lot on this forum too - nothing new.

And really don't care about your religious morality - we have separation of church and state for a reason.

Y'all can put your violins away now about this "shoeless peasants" malarkey. We're onto you like a cheap suit on an August afternoon in Georgia.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,898 posts, read 5,960,843 times
Reputation: 3921
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Your answers prove you are clearly misinformed about this subject.
Perhaps. But your responses would give me no confidence in that judgment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me
1. You can't possibly believe your first answer - unless you are fatally naive or dull.
Why is it that you guys never seem capable of counting higher than two?

It's always the false dichotomy, "You are either this or you are that." You seem to have no capacity to comprehend that there can be a third, fourth or hundredth option. So you are always stuck suggestion only two possibilities, both of which are usually wrong.

Yes, I absolutely believe the first answer. I do not believe it is the exclusive reason, but it sure as hell is the big one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me
2. The current system did not "create" 11.5 million illegal aliens - the lack of enforcement did.
That is all the same system, both the laws in place and the failure to enforce them. There are reasons laws don't get enforced and it's not always because bad people are scheming behind closed doors. If laws are difficult or impossible to enforce, there's probably something wrong with the laws. Don't you think?

That was a rhetorical question. I know your answer is, "No." But my point is made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me
3. Yes - I will pay for it, along with the rest of the taxpayers of CA. We can start by taking the near $4 BILLION we spend annually to educate illegals to start funding.
I am also a Californian taxpayer. And I would prefer to fix the system.

We are it seems at an impasse.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,898 posts, read 5,960,843 times
Reputation: 3921
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
It's all about Mexicans for you, isn't it?

<snip>

Y'all can put your violins away now about this "shoeless peasants" malarkey. We're onto you like a cheap suit on an August afternoon in Georgia.
See Mohawk? You got at least this one pegged.

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Old 06-11-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Pa
19,764 posts, read 10,689,870 times
Reputation: 6087
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Those are two options. They are not the inclusive list of possibilities.

Another might be that my consideration of the issue is somewhat more subtle than just making sure that little brown people with a funny language stay on their side of the line.


Any choice a government makes creates winners and losers. Often who wins and who loses has nothing to do with the behavior of either group. We make those decisions instead because they are the right ones for us, our nation and our economy.

If your rhetoric around illegal immigration betrayed an inkling of understanding that, it would be easier to allow you the benefit of the doubt that you really were worried about rewarding bad behavior. But sadly, I cannot find any cause to credit you that way.

Your primary concern appears to be that you are pissed off, and that you want to see somebody pay for your unhappiness.


Because, again, I understand that comprehensive immigration reform is about what is right for us, our nation and our economy. It is not about finally giving maids and gardeners a well deserved spanking.


And if that's the right thing to do for us, our nation and our economy... why would you oppose that? Oh, I forgot. Because it doesn't punish them enough.


You are speaking here of the current laws... you remember?... the ones that are not working and that got us into this situation that you are so upset about?

I am unaware of anyone who is suggesting that comprehensive immigration reform means doing exactly the same things we are doing now. Instead they are actually recommending solutions to the problem.

And the problem is how to fix our immigration system, not how to get rid of Mexicans.
The ones that are not working? 1.6 million legal immigrants per years says otherwise.
What has failed is a complete lack of enforcement combined with an open border.
Since when does it make it right just because a politician says so?
Remember Gulf War II? A whole lot of politicians said that was the way to go.
You are correct in 1 regard. I do feel illegals need to be punished not rewarded for their criminal behavior. I feel this way about all illegals.
By the way who brought race into the conversation? Who brought skin color into it? The race card the favorite weapon of the left. My wife a legal immigrant and a Thai national is just about as brown as anyone from SOB.
The only reform we need is strict enforcement of our immigration laws.
As I said before 1.6 million per year. Something must be working.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7,047 posts, read 2,673,642 times
Reputation: 3120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
It's all about Mexicans for you, isn't it? You seem to think illegal immigration is exclusively a Mexican thing - or maybe you're just protective of the Mexican illegals. Either way, you've shown the board that you have some bias toward illegal Mexicans. But that's ok - we see this phenomenon in the criminal supporters all the time. How funny that someone like you who has shown their ethnic bias is accusing others of "unbridled hate". But we've seen that a lot on this forum too - nothing new.

And really don't care about your religious morality - we have separation of church and state for a reason.

Y'all can put your violins away now about this "shoeless peasants" malarkey. We're onto you like a cheap suit on an August afternoon in Georgia.
I just used the Mexican scenario as an example. Let me ask you this........If you had to choose either or, would you prefer 100,000 illegal mexicans picking lettuce or 100,000 pakistanis who are on expired visas? I know the correct answer is neither but if you had to pick, which group would you choose......shoeless peasants? or.......educated islamic students with an agenda and a bias against the US?

IMO, you are directing your frustration and anger at the wrong target. It should be directed towards the politicians both left and right who use the situation for political advantage rather than for the best interests of the country. You should direct your anger and frustration at the government at state and federal level who fail to enforce the employment verification laws on the books. You should direct your anger and frustration at the falure of the gov. to secure our borders and enact a modern, realistic immigration reform package that will end the crisis once and for all.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:00 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 1,217,446 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Now I understand where you're coming from. Let's say you have a mexican field worker who came here in 1988. He has worked the fields and picked your lettuce, corn and mellons for years. He gets married, has kids and has been supporting his family. You are the heartless faction that says, he should have immediate deportation and loose everything he has worked for his whole adult life. You are entitled to your beliefs but I tell you they go against Christian morality, social conscience and historical, American tradition. I suggest you leave your unbridled hate at the door and develop a wider focus that encompasses compassion.
Yet they couldn't be bothered to pick up an immigrant application.

Yeah, right.

Go back where you came from.
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