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Old 06-11-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Arizona
12,739 posts, read 7,360,267 times
Reputation: 6715

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lariat View Post
Yet they couldn't be bothered to pick up an immigrant application.

Yeah, right.

Go back where you came from.
I wish my ancesters from 400 years ago had told your ancestors to go back where you came from as they stepped off the boat on to our land. You've proven yourselves to be nothing but a nation of heartless exploiters. Biggest mistake was ours, in American history. Nothing left for you after you've finished demonizing the Hispanics is to eat your own. Soon enough..........soon enough.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,026,686 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Nonsense.

We need a comprehensive and sober immigration policy... one that actually takes into account the realities of economics. One of those realities is that labor and work find each other; either people will come for the work, or the work will go to where the people are. I refer you to the massive amount of outsourcing of American jobs to Mexico (think "maquiladoras") and India.

When people whine about "illegals" driving down American wages (something that is just as true with "legals") they are in fantasy land when they imagine that keeping them out will allow wages to rise. Not in any capitalistic system that I know of. The jobs will either be here and lower paying, or they will not be here at all.

We will never solve the illegal immigration problem for example until we have (among other things) a rational guest worker program. But such an idea is dead on arrival because people have some weird idea that it would "reward" people they don't want rewarded.

It is pathetic that we stubbornly refuse to do the right things for us and for our economy because people feel some irrelevant but visceral need to punish somebody. Laws like the one passed in Arizona go a great distance to make the advocates of punishment feel better. They do nothing to fix the real problem.


Actually, I am fully convinced that every single illegal would rather be legal. So yes, I think that a program designed that actually took into account economic truth would find a vast number of illegals stepping forward and taking advantage of a plan that makes them legal, even if that requires they go home for a while.


No... it's not going to happen.

And that's why we will not solve this problem at all.
The right thing for us, for our country, is to rid our country of every illegal criminal who laughs in our face while stealing their way into/onto our soil. (This is probably the greater majority of them!)
It is delusional to think that illegals already in the US will willingly go home and apply legally. If they could have done so they would have. They KNOW they would be rejected because they lack education and resources to be successful in the US.
Should the United States let every poor person into our country knowing they will be a drain on society? It's happening as we speak and it is NOT good for this country at all.
Sending the poor illegals packing and back to their home countries is the best thing to do for us, for our country.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:47 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 2,179,786 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I wish my ancesters from 400 years ago had told your ancestors to go back where you came from as they stepped off the boat on to our land. You've proven yourselves to be nothing but a nation of heartless exploiters. Biggest mistake was ours, in American history. Nothing left for you after you've finished demonizing the Hispanics is to eat your own. Soon enough..........soon enough.
What a ****-poor comparison. Your anger is also misplaced.

Didja know Hispanics eradicated your own, too? Yeah.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:02 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,168,230 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I wish my ancesters from 400 years ago had told your ancestors to go back where you came from as they stepped off the boat on to our land. You've proven yourselves to be nothing but a nation of heartless exploiters. Biggest mistake was ours, in American history. Nothing left for you after you've finished demonizing the Hispanics is to eat your own. Soon enough..........soon enough.
Looks like a lot of misguided "anger and frustration" is coming from your posts, not mine. I am actually quite happy and content with the changes taking place in our great nation. The sleeping giant has finally awoken.

BTW - what is it with the "you've proven yourselves" - are you not an American? Are you not one of us? My ancestors, your ancestors - 400 years ago - why not go back even further? Let's ask Kennewick man's dried up ossified remains what HIS take on this is.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Arizona
12,739 posts, read 7,360,267 times
Reputation: 6715
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Looks like a lot of misguided "anger and frustration" is coming from your posts, not mine. I am actually quite happy and content with the changes taking place in our great nation. The sleeping giant has finally awoken.

BTW - what is it with the "you've proven yourselves" - are you not an American? Are you not one of us? My ancestors, your ancestors - 400 years ago - why not go back even further? Let's ask Kennewick man's dried up ossified remains what HIS take on this is.
I'm a registered tribal member of the St. Regis Mohawk Tribe. My ancestors are all Mohawks. I have no hispanic blood in my veins. To this day, it is you and yours for yourselves. We, on the other hand have fought extermination of our culture and our physical being from your culture for centuries. Your kind controls the nation. Your only option for us is to abandon our heritage and embrace your corporate mall culture and christian god who proclaims that we must convert or live in hell for eternity. Now you want to demonize the Hispanic race. The battle continues.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,168,230 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I'm a registered tribal member of the St. Regis Mohawk Tribe. My ancestors are all Mohawks. I have no hispanic blood in my veins. To this day, it is you and yours for yourselves. We, on the other hand have fought extermination of our culture and our physical being from your culture for centuries. Your kind controls the nation. Your only option for us is to abandon our heritage and embrace your corporate mall culture and christian god who proclaims that we must convert or live in hell for eternity. Now you want to demonize the Hispanic race. The battle continues.
You're way out in left field, in that case. I don't have a christian god and I don't believe in hell either. I am not demonizing any race. FWIW - Hispanic is not a race. There are but three races. Hispanic isn't one of them.

The debate is about illegal aliens. If a horde of illegal aliens from MARS invaded our country and demanded their "rights" I would feel the exact same way about that, too. I don't discriminate, mohawkx - I want ALL illegals, of all shapes, sizes, colors, patterns, orientations, etc. to pack up and go home.

Why on earth would you point out that you have no "hispanic" blood in your veins? Do you look down on hispanics? And for you to assume to know what my culture is, what my "kind" is, is more than presumptuous. You don't know me from Adam. You don't know what "my people" went through. You just can't know. But that is neither here, nor there, because it has nothing to do with the subject of illegal immigration.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Arizona
12,739 posts, read 7,360,267 times
Reputation: 6715
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
You're way out in left field, in that case. I don't have a christian god and I don't believe in hell either. I am not demonizing any race. FWIW - Hispanic is not a race. There are but three races. Hispanic isn't one of them.

The debate is about illegal aliens. If a horde of illegal aliens from MARS invaded our country and demanded their "rights" I would feel the exact same way about that, too. I don't discriminate, mohawkx - I want ALL illegals, of all shapes, sizes, colors, patterns, orientations, etc. to pack up and go home.

Why on earth would you point out that you have no "hispanic" blood in your veins? Do you look down on hispanics? And for you to assume to know what my culture is, what my "kind" is, is more than presumptuous. You don't know me from Adam. You don't know what "my people" went through. You just can't know. But that is neither here, nor there, because it has nothing to do with the subject of illegal immigration.
The post was in response to your questioning my ancestry. You question mine, I'll question yours. Save your cheap shots for someone else. Oh and by the way, you are doomed to disappointment. There is no way you can realisticly get 12-20 million people and their families to "pack up and go home.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:59 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,168,230 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
The post was in response to your questioning my ancestry. You question mine, I'll question yours. Save your cheap shots for someone else. Oh and by the way, you are doomed to disappointment. There is no way you can realisticly get 12-20 million people and their families to "pack up and go home.
I didn't ask about your ancestry, you were the one focused on the concept of ancestry and this "we/you" stuff. You are welcome to question mine if it matters to you - but that's not what you did. You just jumped to conclusions based on nothing but your groundless assumptions.

What are my cheap shots? You didn't address the parts of my response that didn't fit into your view of me.

I am not doomed to disappointment when the change has already begun. We are at the dawn of a new era. Never underestimate the power of a nation united.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:13 PM
 
358 posts, read 332,795 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I wish my ancesters from 400 years ago had told your ancestors to go back where you came from as they stepped off the boat on to our land. You've proven yourselves to be nothing but a nation of heartless exploiters. Biggest mistake was ours, in American history. Nothing left for you after you've finished demonizing the Hispanics is to eat your own. Soon enough..........soon enough.
Lol.. I love how you think Americans are "demonizing the Hispanics". I would like to enlighten you as to why illegal immigration is becoming such a huge problem. In 1970 there was 2.88 million "other" races in the United States. "Other" is defined as anything other than Black or White http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcom...ts/1971-02.pdf
Today there is over 47 million Hispanics in the United States. According to government figures there is approx. 11 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. We have to keep in mind that number can easily triple, like it did in the 80's when the government told the American people only 1 million illegal immigrants were here to get amnesty, and the number tripled to 3 million after the IRCA passed. In 1970, 73.4% of Hispanics that had entered the United States became citizens, only 7.3% of those that entered between 1990-2000 have become citizens. So I would first like to point out that the illegal immigrants have flooded our border over the last few decades, causing quite a few problems for Americans. So what is so bad about Hispanics? is it the brown skin? the easy scapegoat to our own failures? I think not. We have had a huge influx of low skilled, uneducated workers over the last couple decades, and those workers are taking jobs low skilled Americans have traditionally held. America is currently a post industrial society and has shifted to a service based economy. Why is this important? because working hard with your hands is no longer the "norm" for living in comfort and supporting a family, it's about attaining a good education that our service based economy demands. So how does this equate to the illegal immigrant issue? well, I would like to start by saying in 2002 27% of Hispanics had less than a ninth grade education, 16% attained a 9-12 grade education (no diploma), 45.9% have a high school diploma or some college, 11% Bachelor degree http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-545.pdf
So we have a huge population of low skilled workers, with supply far exceeding demand. What does this do to wages? what does it do to Americans without skills? That is the main problem with illegal immigration.
Assimilation is another huge factor in the illegal immigration debate. I will have to keep this short to prevent another moderator from taking this down for "copyright infringement". A book called Generations of exclusion: Mexican Americans, assimilation, and race By Edward Eric Telles, Vilma Ortiz. The study found that unlike European Americans, Mexicans have failed to thrive in America. The fourth generation was worse off than the first, the most educated generation was the 1.5 generation (here illegally as small children), by the fourth generation 25% still had an accent marking them as a minority, only 7% identified themselves as being American, 25% had family members in gangs, etc. Now who do you think pays for the large, poor, uneducated illegal immigrant families? do you have any idea how many billions are thrown away on illegal immigrants each year? do you have any idea how many 10's of billions of dollars are sent south of the border each year? should I remind you that every dollar sent out of this country is one less dollar to help rebuild the economy? that money would help to stimulate the economy by purchasing goods and services to support business, and the sales tax it would generate would be nice as well. Illegal immigration is not about race, but the type of people coming to America breaking our laws.
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Arizona
12,739 posts, read 7,360,267 times
Reputation: 6715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman82 View Post
Lol.. I love how you think Americans are "demonizing the Hispanics". I would like to enlighten you as to why illegal immigration is becoming such a huge problem. In 1970 there was 2.88 million "other" races in the United States. "Other" is defined as anything other than Black or White http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcom...ts/1971-02.pdf
Today there is over 47 million Hispanics in the United States. According to government figures there is approx. 11 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. We have to keep in mind that number can easily triple, like it did in the 80's when the government told the American people only 1 million illegal immigrants were here to get amnesty, and the number tripled to 3 million after the IRCA passed. In 1970, 73.4% of Hispanics that had entered the United States became citizens, only 7.3% of those that entered between 1990-2000 have become citizens. So I would first like to point out that the illegal immigrants have flooded our border over the last few decades, causing quite a few problems for Americans. So what is so bad about Hispanics? is it the brown skin? the easy scapegoat to our own failures? I think not. We have had a huge influx of low skilled, uneducated workers over the last couple decades, and those workers are taking jobs low skilled Americans have traditionally held. America is currently a post industrial society and has shifted to a service based economy. Why is this important? because working hard with your hands is no longer the "norm" for living in comfort and supporting a family, it's about attaining a good education that our service based economy demands. So how does this equate to the illegal immigrant issue? well, I would like to start by saying in 2002 27% of Hispanics had less than a ninth grade education, 16% attained a 9-12 grade education (no diploma), 45.9% have a high school diploma or some college, 11% Bachelor degree http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-545.pdf
So we have a huge population of low skilled workers, with supply far exceeding demand. What does this do to wages? what does it do to Americans without skills? That is the main problem with illegal immigration.
Assimilation is another huge factor in the illegal immigration debate. I will have to keep this short to prevent another moderator from taking this down for "copyright infringement". A book called Generations of exclusion: Mexican Americans, assimilation, and race By Edward Eric Telles, Vilma Ortiz. The study found that unlike European Americans, Mexicans have failed to thrive in America. The fourth generation was worse off than the first, the most educated generation was the 1.5 generation (here illegally as small children), by the fourth generation 25% still had an accent marking them as a minority, only 7% identified themselves as being American, 25% had family members in gangs, etc. Now who do you think pays for the large, poor, uneducated illegal immigrant families? do you have any idea how many billions are thrown away on illegal immigrants each year? do you have any idea how many 10's of billions of dollars are sent south of the border each year? should I remind you that every dollar sent out of this country is one less dollar to help rebuild the economy? that money would help to stimulate the economy by purchasing goods and services to support business, and the sales tax it would generate would be nice as well. Illegal immigration is not about race, but the type of people coming to America breaking our laws.
Thank you for all the stats. Before I can give an informed response, I'll have to check them out for veracity and spin. But I can tell you this. I've worked in the hotel industry for 28 years as a manager and the industry is all "service industry" oriented. There are many hispanic workers in all the properties I had the good fortune to be part of and I can tell you they are the finest workers and most cheerful under the most difficult conditions. At least on a par with any other race of workers and in some ways.......sometimes better. I presently work at one of the top destination resorts in the world and the employee of the year was a hispanic housekeeper named Julia. I spent this evening with four hispanic children in the front yard, who live on my street. We made window boxes of flowers for the seniors on the block. I'll get back to you on how these people are uneducated, inferior human beings once I read your links and see if it's the usual slanted, biased opinion piece from some right wing, fringe, essay artist.
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