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Currently the USA allows just about 1.6 million legal immigrants per year to enter. To put this into perspective that is more than all other nations on the planet combined. By that standard I would and do think that we must have some pretty reasonable immigration laws.
Now we have heard the argument from some that we are just not fair. That we make it too difficult and this in turn forces people to violate our laws.
1.6 million legal immigrants say otherwise. 1.6 million people who felt that the rewards justified doing it legally.
NO !
Where on planet earth is there a border that is so unsecured as the U.S. Mexican border
You keep referring to the "poor people" when most of them paid 2-5 grand to be smuggled here. That is a lot of money for shoes.
So.......are you saying that these people sneaking across the border are well to do? I don't think so. It's not like they are sneaking across in their Bemers and caddies. That 2-5 thousand just shows you how bad they want to get here. If we could actually close the border I think most the probs would be solved.
So.......are you saying that these people sneaking across the border are well to do? I don't think so. It's not like they are sneaking across in their Bemers and caddies. That 2-5 thousand just shows you how bad they want to get here. If we could actually close the border I think most the probs would be solved.
They are a heck of a lot better off than they were, that's why they are coming. I don't give them a free pass based on their financial status any more than we do anyone else living here. All criminals are desperate, anyone living below a certain financial barrier is poor. That doesn't give them a pass on breaking the law. I don't like any of the criminals be it the dirty rat hiring them or the Illegals breaking the law too.
They are a heck of a lot better off than they were, that's why they are coming. I don't give them a free pass based on their financial status any more than we do anyone else living here. All criminals are desperate, anyone living below a certain financial barrier is poor. That doesn't give them a pass on breaking the law. I don't like any of the criminals be it the dirty rat hiring them or the Illegals breaking the law too.
What makes you think I don't feel the same? I'm totally against illegal immigration and want it stopped. The sooner the better. I have no disagreement with the hard liners ideas about closing the borders and tightening up the employment verification process. My only beef is the hard line, right wing's attempt to dehumanize them and offering them no humane solution for those that are already here. I disagree with the extreme rhetoric that is causing a spill over of blame on the legal hispanic community. Many who can trace their decendants back to a time before much of the land was a state. I also disagree with the hard line policy of creating a whole new police arm whose sole job is to kick in doors and round up 20 million people to deport back to the place they came.
So.......are you saying that these people sneaking across the border are well to do? I don't think so. It's not like they are sneaking across in their Bemers and caddies. That 2-5 thousand just shows you how bad they want to get here. If we could actually close the border I think most the probs would be solved.
No what most of us are saying is that they are criminals. Most of which never even attempted to apply for a VISA. 2 to 5 G cheaper than a VISA application and process and yet they opt for the criminal path. Actions speak louder than words every time.
Then why arn't the immigration hardliners going after the employers rather than a bunch of shoeless peasants? Why arn't all the legal citizens who are out of work and claiming that they will do the jobs that illegals do lining up at Lowe's and Home Depot willing to be day laborers? That in itself would shut down a big portion of the illegal labor pool. Instead, everyone just whines and moans about how a bunch of shoeless peasants and babies born here are single-handedly destroying the country and the rhetoric gets nastier and nastier by the day.
In theory they are all deportable but in reality, logistically and financially that is not a possibility. You can't easily move 20 million people anywhere without a huge logistical and financial effort. Also the idea that if you crack down on them they will all leave is just a myth used to justify the thinly disguised racial undercurrent that permeates the entire dialogue. I would bet you a dollar to a donut that even if by some weird twist of fate, Tom Tancredo the hardest of the hard line anti illegal leader, were elected president and the repubs controlled the house and senate there would still not be a mass deportation of 20-25 million immigrants. Impossible to acomplish financially, logisticly and morally on the world stage.
If you read the posts on this forum you would know that most if not all of us on both sides advocate hammering the employers. That includes the cheapskates that troll the lowes parking lots looking for cheap illegal labor.
As for deportation. We have seen solid evidence that enforcment causes self deportation. Hazelton PA for example. AZ for another. Make it nation wide and we will see a mass exodous. Take away the work, take away the places to live, take away the support network and they will have no choice.
The issue isn't that we don't have the correct laws. The issue is a total lack of enforcment.
What makes you think I don't feel the same? I'm totally against illegal immigration and want it stopped. The sooner the better. I have no disagreement with the hard liners ideas about closing the borders and tightening up the employment verification process. My only beef is the hard line, right wing's attempt to dehumanize them and offering them no humane solution for those that are already here. I disagree with the extreme rhetoric that is causing a spill over of blame on the legal hispanic community. Many who can trace their decendants back to a time before much of the land was a state. I also disagree with the hard line policy of creating a whole new police arm whose sole job is to kick in doors and round up 20 million people to deport back to the place they came.
As I said in another thread, allowing them to stay is supporting illegal immigration. We don't have to "round anyone up" if we make it so uncomfortable they remove themselves.
There is no "dehumanizing", the managed to get here, they can see themselves back. We'll just hold the door open for them.
The only reason I think someone would think letting them stay is ok is they have Illegal Alien relatives, buddies or something along that line and are ok with shutting the door NOW that they are here.
Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 06-11-2010 at 02:09 PM..
Reason: Tinman makes a good point
[quote=1AngryTaxPayer;14575019]As I said in another thread, allowing them to stay is supporting illegal immigration. We don't have to "round anyone up" if we make it so uncomfortable they remove themselves.
There is no "dehumanizing", the managed to get here, they can see themselves back. We'll just hold the door open for them.
The only reason I think someone would think as you do is you have Illegal Alien relatives, buddies or something along that line and you are ok with shutting the door NOW that you and yours are here.[/quote]
Respectfully, that's totally wrong. I'm a registered member of the St. Regis Mohawk tribe. I have no relatives of Hispanic decent. A little Irish in the woodpile somewhere in the distant past but mostly indian. What I do know is that in my line of work(hotel industry) there are many hispanic employees. I also have hispanic families that live on my street and are personal friends.
The idea that they would all leave is a myth in my opinion. There are too many in residence who have roots and a large stake in the American Dream to pick up and leave on their own accord. I respectfully disagree with you on all your points.
Most probably my leanings towards the issue come from the fact that I converted to Buddhism back in 1974 after my experience in Vietnam. In general our belief system tends to fall on the side of compassionate realism.
Edited to add: One More Time.........I do not support illegal immigration in any form by any ethnic group, from any country, nor will you find any post by me where I have. I just disagree with the solutions to the problem that are being proposed by the anti crowd. Show some intellectual integrity and try and debate the issue without branding me as an illegal immigration supporter because surely I'm not.
As I said in another thread, allowing them to stay is supporting illegal immigration. We don't have to "round anyone up" if we make it so uncomfortable they remove themselves.
There is no "dehumanizing", the managed to get here, they can see themselves back. We'll just hold the door open for them.
The only reason I think someone would think as you do is you have Illegal Alien relatives, buddies or something along that line and you are ok with shutting the door NOW that you and yours are here.[/quote]
Respectfully, that's totally wrong. I'm a registered member of the St. Regis Mohawk tribe. I have no relatives of Hispanic decent. A little Irish in the woodpile somewhere in the distant past but mostly indian. What I do know is that in my line of work(hotel industry) there are many hispanic employees. I also have hispanic families that live on my street and are personal friends.
The idea that they would all leave is a myth in my opinion. There are too many in residence who have roots and a large stake in the American Dream to pick up and leave on their own accord. I respectfully disagree with you on all your points.
Most probably my leanings towards the issue come from the fact that I converted to Buddhism back in 1974 after my experience in Vietnam. In general our belief system tends to fall on the side of compassionate realism.
I need to apologize for using the words "you". I edited my previous hasty posting.
I agree they won't all leave. I also believe that we need to increase AG visas. My biggest concern is our Social Service network and how it is being gamed by those coming here to live off of it.
Currently the USA allows just about 1.6 million legal immigrants per year to enter. To put this into perspective that is more than all other nations on the planet combined. By that standard I would and do think that we must have some pretty reasonable immigration laws.
Now we have heard the argument from some that we are just not fair. That we make it too difficult and this in turn forces people to violate our laws.
1.6 million legal immigrants say otherwise. 1.6 million people who felt that the rewards justified doing it legally.
Another favorite argument is that we allegedly stole land from Mexico and that we owe it to the Mexican people to allow them a free pass.
I won't bother to address this lame excuse because we all have about 1.6 million times already.
You pretty much answered the question. All I can say is, "Why the hell would we want millions of broke people moving into the country hoping that they can find a job?" And I'm not saying that being broke means you aren't worthy, but when it comes to immigration and a person is trying to move into another country, it does matter. Having millions of people who have no education and can just work with their hands coming in spells trouble and basically: burden. So, I think it is funny when people complain that illegal immigrants break in because they aren't welcomed in. Well, duh, most of them don't have anything to offer to the country because we already got our own high school educated, impoverished folks who are trying to just get by.
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