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Old 06-17-2010, 10:53 AM
 
10,486 posts, read 22,608,729 times
Reputation: 6625

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
The problem isn't that "we can't secure our borders," the government does not WANT to secure them, because if they wanted to - they would.

One has to wonder why. There's obviously a reason.

Cheap labor is just one. I'm sure there are more.
The main reason is because they want to make the north american union complete. Think about this. Obama rammed through a totally unconstitutional heath care plan, but he cries foul on the new Arizona law as being unconstitutional. It does not fit his agenda of letting the illegals run wild in Arizona. Now, I do not agree with 1070 myself, but for other reasons than being unconstitutional.

 
Old 06-17-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,787,572 times
Reputation: 35909
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdb63 View Post
Before you do your math you should get the right figures.
I was going by the figures offered in the spectacularly unjournalistic Fox News report offered by the OP.

Fox News even, merrily, suggested that about 1/5 of Arizona is closed, with this unclarified zinger:

"Signs have been posted warning Americans not to cross into the closed off territory south of Interstate 8."



Now, here are the real facts, uncluttered by Fox Newies' unbridled hysteria:

The closure occurred four years ago, and concerned less than 3% of the refuge.


http://www.newshounds.us/2010/06/17/...ife_refuge.php

If you google-news /arizona wildlife refuge/ you will find that there is not one single other news media that has picked up this story. Even the most irresponsible of them saw the story for the BS it was. As we used to say in the news business, there is nothing more worthless than an exclusive that remains an exclusive.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-17-2010 at 11:25 AM..
 
Old 06-17-2010, 11:04 AM
 
2,319 posts, read 3,976,216 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
So now we have a significant public section of our own country that WE are not allowed in? This ticks me off beyond belief. Do people still want to **** and moan about the sanctions Arizona is taking?

Apparently McCain is asking for troops to come in. No-brainer idea, but I'd consider more serious action by sending a few bombers in there and bomb it. I'm quite serious; it should at least be considered. Much less chance of loss of troop's lives and more effective at wiping out some of those scum.
I can't believe no one has commented about this! You are mistaken if you believe that bombing the area will prevent illegal border crossing. Just has mistaken as the people who believe bombing Iraq will make America safer. It seems that there is a large number of Americans who think we can bomb our way past any problem. You have to identify and then solve the root of the problem. You're trying to treat the symptoms. I don't have all the answers but bombing??? No way. I don't have a problem with the National Guard going on in so I'm not against all military intervention just bombing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
And since we're not allowed in there, we'd only be killing the drug scum, which is a good thing. We could give notice and say it's coming, but not exactly when, giving any innocents (who shouldn't be there anyway) a chance to exit. Not sure of the details.
At least you're willing to let the "innocents" get out. Very humanitarian.
 
Old 06-17-2010, 11:34 AM
 
14 posts, read 14,220 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I was going by the figures offered in the spectacularly unjournalistic Fox News report offered by the OP.
Exactly my point. Why would you use figures in a spectacularly unjournalistic report to come up with wrong figures in your post.

Quote:
Fox News even, merrily, suggested that about 1/5 of Arizona is closed, with this unclarified zinger:

"Signs have been posted warning Americans not to cross into the closed off territory south of Interstate 8."


Now, here are the real facts, uncluttered by Fox Newies' unbridled hysteria:

The closure occurred four years ago, and concerned less than 3% of the refuge.

News Hounds: Fox News Keeps Fear Mongering Over Closure Of Section Of Wildlife Refuge

If you google-news /arizona wildlife refuge/ you will find that there is not one single other news media that has picked up this story. Even the most irresponsible of them saw the story for the BS it was. As we used to day in the news business, there is nothing more worthless than an exclusive that remains an exclusive.
It was a poor researched report. It had many errors in it. But the basic fact of the report is still true. Land within the U.S. is being closed because of the illegal flow of persons from south of the border.
 
Old 06-17-2010, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,787,572 times
Reputation: 35909
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdb63 View Post
Exactly my point. Why would you use figures in a spectacularly unjournalistic report to come up with wrong figures in your post.

.
To show how silly it is to watch Fox News and think you are getting any ideas at all about the real world upon which to base any kind of a discussion. This may or may not be a legitimate topic for discussion, but the Fox News story contributes absolutely nothing to it.

I've seen items on The Onion that come closer to the truth, and would be better starting points for legitimate discussion. And most of the time, The Onion is even funner than Fox News, and deals with more relevant public issues.

As for the only tiny part of the OP that deals with any part of the real world, there is already a subforum that is dedicated precisely to that narrow area, which was created years ago because people are so sick of this hate crap being spouted over and over again in every other forum

http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-immigration/

In fact, its a much more popular forum than Great Debates. There are twice as many current threads running there that have been posted to today,

Last edited by jtur88; 06-17-2010 at 12:17 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2010, 12:05 PM
 
2,086 posts, read 2,107,709 times
Reputation: 872
This is hard not to make it a political thing. If it were up to the people, then this would not be an issue. I think we should have the military go in and bomb the crap out of it, and start over. This area is a wildlife sanctuary, but has been made into a drug cartel sanctuary. Those people do not care for the wildlife, and all of their trash laying around like a landfill, just goes to prove it. They will just keep moving forward, and "take over" more and more of our country.
We can indeed secure our boarders. But we are not...
 
Old 06-17-2010, 12:10 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 3,976,216 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waianaegirl View Post
This is hard not to make it a political thing. If it were up to the people, then this would not be an issue. I think we should have the military go in and bomb the crap out of it, and start over. This area is a wildlife sanctuary, but has been made into a drug cartel sanctuary. Those people do not care for the wildlife, and all of their trash laying around like a landfill, just goes to prove it. They will just keep moving forward, and "take over" more and more of our country.
We can indeed secure our boarders. But we are not...
Seriously?!?!?! Why do you thinking bombing will change anything??? It won't stop illegal border crossings. Shoot, why don't we just nuc everyone. We could take out the illegal immigrants, pedophiles, terrorists, and anyone else we disagree with. Good grief! This is the epitome of ignorance.
 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:01 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
Seriously?!?!?! Why do you thinking bombing will change anything??? It won't stop illegal border crossings. Shoot, why don't we just nuc everyone. We could take out the illegal immigrants, pedophiles, terrorists, and anyone else we disagree with. Good grief! This is the epitome of ignorance.
Uh, even though I am opposed to violence unless it is absolutely necessary you can't be serious that militarizing our border with orders to shoot or having landmines wouldn't stop illegal entry.
 
Old 06-17-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,973,479 times
Reputation: 1806
"About 3,500 acres of southern Arizona along the Mexican border is closed to U.S. citizens due to increased violence in the region... the closed off area stretches 80 miles along the border"

FoxNews math got me confused also. Spin over facts. 3500 acres closed on an 80 mile section is just a football field width along the border. The claim that it is "closed to U.S. citizens" is odd as surely it would be closed to everyone. My read of the article is that nothing is "closed" but that there are warning signs similar to what you would see near prisons. The other claim that "signs have been posted warning Americans not to cross into the closed off territory south of Interstate 8" is odd as I-8 is quite a distance north (50-70 miles) and there are roads and towns south of I-8.

Last edited by Gary Siete; 06-17-2010 at 06:53 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2010, 07:05 PM
 
364 posts, read 185,022 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Uh, even though I am opposed to violence unless it is absolutely necessary you can't be serious that militarizing our border with orders to shoot or having landmines wouldn't stop illegal entry.
shoot to kil orders are comin
specialy if another rancher
is killed by ilegal aliens
american ppl are gettin madder
tick tock
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