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Old 06-25-2010, 01:38 PM
 
40 posts, read 35,321 times
Reputation: 38

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
False equivocation.

If you're speeding and get into an accident I would do what I can to help you recover and make sure you are OK. It doesn't follow that I supported your speeding.

Trying to prevent people from dying is not supporting entry. It is....drumroll....trying to preserve life.

It is a meaningless question to me. I don't and very few others advocate open borders or illegal immigration.

So, if I must answer the question as asked the answer is I don't. The problem is that if the OP is actually seeking understanding or to learn something, then s/he needs to ask better questions.
We dont live in a specific world. You dont see every illegal busting their ass to get to America to become an American and assimilate to the system. So your specifics really apply only to your argument.

It's nice to know you dont support illegal immigration. I expect you to vote that way when the time comes.

I guess it's funny to me. Your not looking at the 1000 reasons why SB 1070 was finally put into effect and understanding them, are you? I would imagine you blanket denounce SB1070, dont you? See, you live in the same world I do.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:38 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,059,856 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
False equivocation.

If you're speeding and get into an accident I would do what I can to help you recover and make sure you are OK. It doesn't follow that I supported your speeding.
Accident? Who said anything about an accident? You wouldn't be falsely equivocating, would you?

Quote:
Trying to prevent people from dying is not supporting entry. It is....drumroll....trying to preserve life.

It is a meaningless question to me. I don't and very few others advocate open borders or illegal immigration.
Wrong thread. The OP didn't mention anything about trying to preserve life. But since you mentioned it, shouldn't those who are breaking the law by crossing a desert be at least somewhat responsible for there actions? If I go speeding down the highway at 120, lose control of my vehicle and die, whose fault is it?


Quote:
So, if I must answer the question as asked the answer is I don't. The problem is that if the OP is actually seeking understanding or to learn something, then s/he needs to ask better questions.
Now we're getting somewhere. Let me ask a follow-up question. When people march in the streets chanting, "Yes we can." Do you support them, or do you reply with, "No you can't?"
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:39 PM
 
40 posts, read 35,321 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
Are you suggesting that I wouldn't give a dehydrated resident alien or citizen water? That is absurd.

Amnesty isn't being offered. It shows a lack of critical thinking to concern oneself with a nonexistent EO with respect amnesty.

Do you suggest we let migrants die a horrible death?
Keep putting food in a bird feeder and birds will show up.

Crossing a border though rough terrain isnt the only way to go Maui. They can always do it the....drumrole....... LEGAL WAY!

Paved roads there.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:42 PM
 
349 posts, read 393,999 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePeople View Post
We dont live in a specific world. You dont see every illegal busting their ass to get to America to become an American and assimilate to the system. So your specifics really apply only to your argument.

It's nice to know you dont support illegal immigration. I expect you to vote that way when the time comes.

I guess it's funny to me. Your not looking at the 1000 reasons why SB 1070 was finally put into effect and understanding them, are you? I would imagine you blanket denounce SB1070, dont you? See, you live in the same world I do.
Well, I attempt to avoid blanket arguments generally because it can lead to contradictions.

Some provisions of 1070 are fine. If the state crimes provisions are excluded and the language in sec 3 is further changed from "stop, detention, or arrest" to simply "arrest" I would likely have no problem with the law.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:52 PM
 
349 posts, read 393,999 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Accident? Who said anything about an accident? You wouldn't be falsely equivocating, would you?


Wrong thread. The OP didn't mention anything about trying to preserve life. But since you mentioned it, shouldn't those who are breaking the law by crossing a desert be at least somewhat responsible for there actions? If I go speeding down the highway at 120, lose control of my vehicle and die, whose fault is it?



Now we're getting somewhere. Let me ask a follow-up question. When people march in the streets chanting, "Yes we can." Do you support them, or do you reply with, "No you can't?"
Well, if the migrants didn't need water to avoid death by dehydration, then your analogy about speeding might have made sense. I don't support illegal entry and I don't support excessive speeding. To make the analogy work there needs to be significant risk. Speeding does not work.

I'm attempting to help the OP get the desired answers. It will now be three times that I've pointed out the question is bad. If you ask poor questions, then you should expect poor answers.

If the OP truly wants to understand then reasonable questions will be asked. If not, then nothing will be gained other than me pointing out the fallacy of such questioning.

It is probably your fault if you wreck your car at the speed you listed. I have no problem with deporting those found illegally present. That is the consequence. I don't think we should just let them die, although that is a risk some are willing to take.

Your "yes, we can" "no, we can't question is unclear.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:55 PM
 
40 posts, read 35,321 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
Well, if the migrants didn't need water to avoid death by dehydration, then your analogy about speeding might have made sense. I don't support illegal entry and I don't support excessive speeding. To make the analogy work there needs to be significant risk. Speeding does not work.

I'm attempting to help the OP get the desired answers. It will now be three times that I've pointed out the question is bad. If you ask poor questions, then you should expect poor answers.

If the OP truly wants to understand then reasonable questions will be asked. If not, then nothing will be gained other than me pointing out the fallacy of such questioning.

It is probably your fault if you wreck your car at the speed you listed. I have no problem with deporting those found illegally present. That is the consequence. I don't think we should just let them die, although that is a risk some are willing to take.

Your "yes, we can" "no, we can't question is unclear.
My man, the question stands legit. I said "end game" not all the filler in between.

Do you support illegal immigration?

If the answer is no then you dont support everything that comes with it. Medicare, housing, education. The whole nine.

You cant say no but you support taking care of them once they get here.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:00 PM
 
349 posts, read 393,999 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePeople View Post
My man, the question stands legit. I said "end game" not all the filler in between.

Do you support illegal immigration?

If the answer is no then you dont support everything that comes with it. Medicare, housing, education. The whole nine.

You cant say no but you support taking care of them once they get here.
I already answered that. I don't support medicare for unlawful migrants, but I do support life saving treatment. You see, most of these issues are complex and a simple for or against is too simplistic. I like to have as much info as possible before reaching judgments.

I have no problem with deportation of unlawfully present individuals.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:06 PM
 
40 posts, read 35,321 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
I already answered that. I don't support medicare for unlawful migrants, but I do support life saving treatment. You see, most of these issues are complex and a simple for or against is too simplistic. I like to have as much info as possible before reaching judgments.

I have no problem with deportation of unlawfully present individuals.
The holes you leave with your sympathy are the gateways to the abuse of this nation.

I'm sorry people thought it was ok to have as many babies as possible on the American tax payers dime. I'm sorry they are slowly building a cult movement to take back their "land". I'm sorry that none of the opposers to SB 1070 have ever marched in Mexico to fight for Mexicans rights there.

I'm sorry our sympathy has been exploited, under appreciated and used against us.

I'd say it 30 million times if it makes you feel better.

Cant have it both ways in todays world. Unless you believe our policy makers are that sharp? That they can write laws specifically for each persons personal experiences. Sorry, I dont have the faith. After years of abuse a blanket policy has been adopted. It's neither knee jerk or offensive to anyone but illegals.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:17 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,971,597 times
Reputation: 11119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiwowie View Post
I already answered that. I don't support medicare for unlawful migrants, but I do support life saving treatment. You see, most of these issues are complex and a simple for or against is too simplistic. I like to have as much info as possible before reaching judgments.

I have no problem with deportation of unlawfully present individuals.
this is it in a nut shell. I don't know anyone who is pro illegals. the issue is complex and many in this folder see it simply as black or white. having compassion does not mean not understanding we have a problem with illegal immigration. for the op to not to want to bring in some arguments because they are facts does not mean they should not be considered and some issues are the very reason why we have a problem. why take it off the table.

no one supports criminal activities, so given the small box the op wants his answers despite his diversity is really hamstring the answers.

I don't support illegals, understanding and having compassion for an issue are two different things
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:21 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,971,597 times
Reputation: 11119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePeople View Post
The holes you leave with your sympathy are the gateways to the abuse of this nation.

I'm sorry people thought it was ok to have as many babies as possible on the American tax payers dime. I'm sorry they are slowly building a cult movement to take back their "land". I'm sorry that none of the opposers to SB 1070 have ever marched in Mexico to fight for Mexicans rights there.

I'm sorry our sympathy has been exploited, under appreciated and used against us.

I'd say it 30 million times if it makes you feel better.

Cant have it both ways in todays world. Unless you believe our policy makers are that sharp? That they can write laws specifically for each persons personal experiences. Sorry, I dont have the faith. After years of abuse a blanket policy has been adopted. It's neither knee jerk or offensive to anyone but illegals. why do americans continue to hire cheap and under the table labor to do their housework and odd jobs?
no you really are not sorry you are fed up and rightly so. the answers are more in why are we not enforcing the laws we already have? why are busting the employers who hire them? why don't the churches who are tax exempt because they are charitable step up to the plate more and help?
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