Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Do you actually think he won't push the swing vote to the right if he keeps pushing this amnesty carp?
I'm not sure that challenging the AZ law is tantamount to amnesty for starters. What I do know is that there is alot of time between now and 2012.
I think you are seeing progressives angry with the President (on a number of issues) and assuming that will translate into a lost vote for him or the local Democratic representative down the road - and I think that isn't what happens. Even many Republicans who are willing to admit Bush was terrible now still voted for him the 2nd time around because for all they found wrong with him, he was still better than the other guy in their estimate. Don't expect mass defections - it's not going to happen.
I also think that some people who fancy themselves as the center, really aren't in the middle (or at least they're not representative of how middle will actually vote). They think because he doesn't appeal to them, he doesn't appeal to the middle. That is the kind of thinking that had the PUMAs overestimating their strength and the same with the Tea Party. I know it makes for good theatre, but everyone is not as angry with the President as you might be... and even the ones that are still will vote for him if there isn't a better alternative.
Not everything is about republicans and democrats, or it shouldn't be. I decide where I stand on an issue and then see where the politicians stand. Putting party first leads toward a lack of principles.
A noble idea. However I did refer to the GOP as an organization, not as an individual voter.
Still at the end of the day, if it's politics, it's politics. That you may happen to agree with the AZ immigration law on principle doesn't mean that it owes existence to apolitical thought. Rest assured, Obama challenging the law is no more political than the Republicans supporting it.
HAH! Dream on! Wait 'till Nov. The Democrats will soon get their comeuppance.
Sigh. If Obama supported the AZ law, never did anything on Healthcare, and didn't do any stimulus spending... the Democrats were still going to lose seats. If you want to take that to mean that as a referrendum on Obama I think you'd be making a mistake.
A noble idea. However I did refer to the GOP as an organization, not as an individual voter.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damie
Still at the end of the day, if it's politics, it's politics. That you may happen to agree with the AZ immigration law on principle doesn't mean that it owes existence to apolitical thought. Rest assured, Obama challenging the law is no more political than the Republicans supporting it.
This may be the difference of the party organization versus individual voters again. I do think that at the national level, there is a lot of politics on both sides. I also think some on both sides have genuine principles behind their views. At the state level in Arizona, I would guess there's a mix as well.
This may be the difference of the party organization versus individual voters again. I do think that at the national level, there is a lot of politics on both sides. I also think some on both sides have genuine principles behind their views. At the state level in Arizona, I would guess there's a mix as well.
On one hand I do feel some empathy for Arizona, because they have been looking for reform to be led from a federal perspective for years now. Where they lose that empathy is the draconian nature in which they wrote the law (and yes I read it before I reached that conclusion - everyone didn't, I know, but I did). It is impossible not to turn the police force into de facto racists and enforce this law.
I am personally not for amnesty - but this isn't the answer and I can't see why anyone would put their political poker chips behind it. It is, in a word, a "loser".
On one hand I do feel some empathy for Arizona, because they have been looking for reform to be led from a federal perspective for years now. Where they lose that empathy is the draconian nature in which they wrote the law (and yes I read it before I reached that conclusion - everyone didn't, I know, but I did). It is impossible not to turn the police force into de facto racists and enforce this law.
I am personally not for amnesty - but this isn't the answer and I can't see why anyone would put their political poker chips behind it. It is, in a word, a "loser".
I'm glad to know that you are making an informed decision on the law. As you say, many are not.
Regarding the law, they have put as many precautions into the law as I can imagine to the extent of clearly stating that race and ethnicity can't be considered. The law is modeled after the federal law and is actually weaker than the federal law. I'm curious to know what could have been written into the law to make it less objectionable. I certainly do not see anything draconian.
On one hand I do feel some empathy for Arizona, because they have been looking for reform to be led from a federal perspective for years now. Where they lose that empathy is the draconian nature in which they wrote the law (and yes I read it before I reached that conclusion - everyone didn't, I know, but I did). It is impossible not to turn the police force into de facto racists and enforce this law.
I am personally not for amnesty - but this isn't the answer and I can't see why anyone would put their political poker chips behind it. It is, in a word, a "loser".
I read the law, but I missed the draconian element. Would you mind posting the section(s)?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
