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Old 07-24-2010, 06:01 PM
 
13,171 posts, read 12,893,403 times
Reputation: 10804

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Again, what you aren't grasping is the changes he has seen occur in his town. It isn't due to legal immigration nor an all of a sudden influx of Hispanic citizens. He would know about his own hometown by living there and seeing these changes take place.

As I have said often in here all those signs in Spanish wouldn't be appearing if those who are making them didn't know there was a large population of illegals to be reached. Most Hispanic citizens and legal immigrants know how to speak English so there is no reasont to reach them in Spanish.
let me put this simply for you. the changes in his town, in our cities and in our country, over time can indeed be because of legal immigration.
he may see the changes, but unless he wants to card each and every person he sees, sitting on the stoop or in the park, it is a broad assumption that they are illegal, on both yours and his part.

you are wrong to think that just because a legal immigrant may indeed speak english that they speak it all the time or do not appreciate seeing a sign in their own language. not everyone can read fluently. why shouldn't a business owner who has spanish speaking customers not have signs in spanish.

his clip was a poorly made rant. Martin Scorsese's Mean Streets it isn't

 
Old 07-24-2010, 06:35 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 3,869,725 times
Reputation: 956
People see what they want to see...I've never been to Downtown[or any other part] of Westbury, so I cant speak form experince of that town, but I do travel the US for work, and I know from personal experience, that the Hispanics [I dont know if legal or not] have migrated to all corners of this Country. Common sense says that some have to be "illegal aliens" but Common Sense also says that not all hispanics or hispanic migration is "illegal" due to "illegals" migrating.

No one has solid imperical evidence of the Illegal vs. legal migration numbers of Hispanics for the past 20 years...or they would be citing those numbers.

Anedotal evidence is great, because it's un-provable, and people accept the results because iswhat they read or "think they see", but could never or dont care to prove.

John, who gave you Westbury? When did anyone say, John this city is yours? The Fact is Westbury has only be around since 1932 and has a diverse mix of ethnic groups...

Quote:
As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 14,263 people, 4,638 households, and 3,441 families residing in the village. The population density was 5,979.0 people per square mile (2,304.2/km2). There were 4,714 housing units at an average density of 1,976.1/sq mi (761.5/km2). The racial makeup of the village was 61.62% White, 22.65% African American, 0.24% Native American, 4.72% Asian, 0.11% Pacific Islander, 5.95% from other races, and 4.73% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 18.85% of the population.
So whats the deal John, You want Zero Hispanics in Westbury?...Would that make you a Less-Tense person?

I wonder how you would feel if the ethnic make-up were...
20% white
20% African-American
20% Asian
20% Hispanic
20% other

Would your town still be a Happy Place?
 
Old 07-24-2010, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,015,030 times
Reputation: 3019
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
let me put this simply for you. the changes in his town, in our cities and in our country, over time can indeed be because of legal immigration.
he may see the changes, but unless he wants to card each and every person he sees, sitting on the stoop or in the park, it is a broad assumption that they are illegal, on both yours and his part.

you are wrong to think that just because a legal immigrant may indeed speak english that they speak it all the time or do not appreciate seeing a sign in their own language. not everyone can read fluently. why shouldn't a business owner who has spanish speaking customers not have signs in spanish.

his clip was a poorly made rant. Martin Scorsese's Mean Streets it isn't
If “over time,” yes I agree. However, what I have witnessed in the DC area did not happen over time, but literally overnight. That can't be due to legal immigration.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:20 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 10,450,205 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
let me put this simply for you. the changes in his town, in our cities and in our country, over time can indeed be because of legal immigration.
he may see the changes, but unless he wants to card each and every person he sees, sitting on the stoop or in the park, it is a broad assumption that they are illegal, on both yours and his part.

you are wrong to think that just because a legal immigrant may indeed speak english that they speak it all the time or do not appreciate seeing a sign in their own language. not everyone can read fluently. why shouldn't a business owner who has spanish speaking customers not have signs in spanish.

his clip was a poorly made rant. Martin Scorsese's Mean Streets it isn't
Let me put it to you this way. The huge demographic changes in the numbers of Latinos in this country isn't due to legal immigration and therefore that is the reason we see all these signs in Spanish. Remain in denial if you wish but the facts are the facts.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:21 PM
 
13,171 posts, read 12,893,403 times
Reputation: 10804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If “over time,” yes I agree. However, what I have witnessed in the DC area did not happen over time, but literally overnight. That can't be due to legal immigration.
1751texan said it better than I can by stating...
Common sense says that some have to be "illegal aliens" but Common Sense also says that not all hispanics or hispanic migration is "illegal" due to "illegals" migrating.
how do you define overnight? did the population swell by thousands over a months time? could it only seem like overnight?
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,295 posts, read 26,044,094 times
Reputation: 6928
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
I am sure he does know about where he lives. with that being said to walk a street w/a camcorder and assume everyone sitting in a doorway or speaking spanish is illegal is a bit much. advert signs in spanish are just that, they are to get the attention of people who speak spainsh. not everyone that speaks spanish is illegal. his "film" was a one sided biased rant. he should make a film that really shows why he is upset not just vague assumptive mumblings
Come visit Westbury and see for yourself. The community is overrun with illegals and gangs. Storefronts which once housed mom and pop businesses, from which hung signs in English, sit either vacant or house businesses which cater specifically to an Hispanic clientele, advertising their services en Espanol.

Come visit Westbury with an attractive young woman and walk through the neighborhoods. Watch the men in the doorways grab themselves and make lewd gestures as they crow obscenities. Check out the young people cruising around wearing colors, look closely at buildings where, for the umpteenth time, the owner has painted over gang tags.

Come visit Westbury and look at the plethora of flags hung from the windows -- not one an American flag.

Men loiter in doorways, side streets and store fronts all day and evening. Seldom if ever do you see them walking with a wife, or family. Lots of men with very few women. Most legal immigrants are here with their families. Most illegals come solo.

Legal immigrants hold down jobs and do not gather on corners as day laborers working for cash. Legal immigrants come to this country because they want to be here, not to milk it and run. Legal immigrants tend to learn the language and the customs; unlike illegals who want us to cater to them.

Granted, JohninWestbury's video skills can use some polish and refinement, but he is speaking the truth.

He is trying to be part of the solution to a problem. What are you doing about it, other than sitting anonymously at your keyboard sitting in judgment of a fellow American citizen?
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,015,030 times
Reputation: 3019
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
1751texan said it better than I can by stating...
Common sense says that some have to be "illegal aliens" but Common Sense also says that not all hispanics or hispanic migration is "illegal" due to "illegals" migrating.
how do you define overnight? did the population swell by thousands over a months time? could it only seem like overnight?
I have never implied that ALL Hispanic migration is due to illegal immigration. I was married to a legal Hispanic immigrant, and I have many Hispanic friends who are also legal, so I certainly would never even allude to such. However, I have lived in the DC area for the majority of my life, and I have seen this area transformed over a period of months, not years. I don’t believe that’s legal immigration, and I can't be convinced otherwise.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:41 PM
 
13,171 posts, read 12,893,403 times
Reputation: 10804
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Come visit Westbury and see for yourself. The community is overrun with illegals and gangs. Storefronts which once housed mom and pop businesses, from which hung signs in English, sit either vacant or house businesses which cater specifically to an Hispanic clientele, advertising their services en Espanol. I can believe the community is choke full of people. some of which are illegal. however storefronts that sit empty can be found in every major urban city. signs catering to spanish speakers can also be found in communities where spanish speaking people live both legal and not. I have a problem that it is easy for a lot of folks to just assume people hanging out and speaking spanish are evil immoral illegals. which is pretty much what our film makers clip is conveying.

Come visit Westbury with an attractive young woman and walk through the neighborhoods. Watch the men in the doorways grab themselves and make lewd gestures as they crow obscenities. Check out the young people cruising around wearing colors, look closely at buildings where, for the umpteenth time, the owner has painted over gang tags. in many inner cities across america you would not want to take an attractive lady. there are some construction sites in fine areas I would also not want to walk by as an attractive woman for the lewd gestures either. this is not an illegal only thing. neither is wearing colors and tagging walls with spray paint.

Come visit Westbury and look at the plethora of flags hung from the windows -- not one an American flag. this alone does not mean illegal, but I am sure illegals do fly their flag. we see chinese script in china town, italian flags in little italy. are these things signs to you of illegal immigration?

Men loiter in doorways, side streets and store fronts all day and evening. Seldom if ever do you see them walking with a wife, or family. Lots of men with very few women. Most legal immigrants are here with their families. Most illegals come solo. I think this is the closest you have come to maybe a real indicator someone might be illegal. however not all single hispanic men hanging out on the corner, illegal. but it is sure easy to paint them as such.

Legal immigrants hold down jobs and do not gather on corners as day laborers working for cash. Legal immigrants come to this country because they want to be here, not to milk it and run. agreed

Legal immigrants tend to learn the language and the customs; unlike illegals who want us to cater to them. some legal immigrants learn the language not all.

Granted, JohninWestbury's video skills can use some polish and refinement, but he is speaking the truth. I have no doubt his clip speaks his truth. like many who posted in this thread it looks more like a gripe about people on the sidewalk and advert signs. if he truly thought about what were the problems he could demonstrate it a far better way.

He is trying to be part of the solution to a problem. What are you doing about it, other than sitting anonymously at your keyboard sitting in judgment of a fellow American citizen?
we are both sitting behind a key board are we not? I can not solve many problems the USA faces. for illegal immigration I do not hire illegals nor do I house them or supply documentation. I do write my representatives about many issues that concern me and this is one. what would you have me do? what do you do?
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:45 PM
 
13,171 posts, read 12,893,403 times
Reputation: 10804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I have never implied that ALL Hispanic migration is due to illegal immigration. I was married to a legal Hispanic immigrant, and I have many Hispanic friends who are also legal, so I certainly would never even allude to such. However, I have lived in the DC area for the majority of my life, and I have seen this area transformed over a period of months, not years. I don’t believe that’s legal immigration, and I can't be convinced otherwise.

I would not try to convince you other wise either. you live in an area where you see what you see. I know most thinking people do not lump everyone into one basket but in this folder it does seem that to be a general rule of thumb, even if in reality it might not be the case, but it is the impression nonetheless.
I might come to the same conclusion if my town had thousands of people come to it in short order. in a 6 month period of time what is your guess to the numbers illegally settling in your town.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,295 posts, read 26,044,094 times
Reputation: 6928
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
People see what they want to see...I've never been to Downtown[or any other part] of Westbury, so I cant speak form experince of that town, but I do travel the US for work, and I know from personal experience, that the Hispanics [I dont know if legal or not] have migrated to all corners of this Country. Common sense says that some have to be "illegal aliens" but Common Sense also says that not all hispanics or hispanic migration is "illegal" due to "illegals" migrating.

No one has solid imperical evidence of the Illegal vs. legal migration numbers of Hispanics for the past 20 years...or they would be citing those numbers.

Anedotal evidence is great, because it's un-provable, and people accept the results because iswhat they read or "think they see", but could never or dont care to prove.

John, who gave you Westbury? When did anyone say, John this city is yours? The Fact is Westbury has only be around since 1932 and has a diverse mix of ethnic groups...

Quote:
As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 14,263 people, 4,638 households, and 3,441 families residing in the village. The population density was 5,979.0 people per square mile (2,304.2/km2). There were 4,714 housing units at an average density of 1,976.1/sq mi (761.5/km2). The racial makeup of the village was 61.62% White, 22.65% African American, 0.24% Native American, 4.72% Asian, 0.11% Pacific Islander, 5.95% from other races, and 4.73% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 18.85% of the population.


So whats the deal John, You want Zero Hispanics in Westbury?...Would that make you a Less-Tense person?

I wonder how you would feel if the ethnic make-up were...
20% white
20% African-American
20% Asian
20% Hispanic
20% other

Would your town still be a Happy Place?
Westbury, like many places on LI, was settled in the 1657 when Capt Seaman purchased a large tract of land from the Algonquins. According to my 1845 text on LI History, Westbury was largely populated by Friends until the Orthodox Friends splintered off in 1827. They didn't leave, but built a new meeting house in the community. The Quakers held slaves, but freed them in 1775; some of them remained. The British occupied Westbury during the Revolutionary War as did the Hessians. Some Hessians remained following the war.

The railroad came through in 1840 while the area was still agricultural. Wealthy people built mansions in what is now known as Old Westbury.

It incorporated in 1932. Incorporation is not to be confused with the actual settlement of that town. It was part of the Town of Hempstead until North Hempstead broke away from Hempstead in 1784, both still a part of Queens County at that time.

The problem that JinW is facing is that the Village of Westbury has never been afflluent like the surrounding communities. The surrounding communities hire the landscapers, contractors, etc., and the village has become a stepping off point for day laborers as it is a relatively short commute. Couple the cheap labor need in Old Westbury with the start of the influx of illegals into Westbury and one can see how the population has grown exponentially.

Long Island History Journal (LIHJ)—Article

Quote:
There were several migratory networks established in the late 1970s and the early 1980s that made the Salvadoran connection to Long Island possible. One was started by Don Miguel Yanes, who was the original newcomer that began a connection between Yanes’s native town of Concepción de Oriente and Westbury. Later referred to by local Salvadorans as “the godfather,” Yanes estimated by his own count to have been followed by possibly a thousand of his townspeople to Westbury. Most Salvadorans, however, came to Long Island through the connections of friends or family.[39] The Central American Refugee Center (CARECEN), which began on Long Island to help serve the growing tide of Salvadorans, estimated that by the early 1990s, the region’s Salvadoran population had grown to an estimated 90,000, more than four-fold the number counted by the census. That many of these immigrants were illegal or undocumented, and fear of being found out by the “Migra” (INS) was an article of faith that kept their official numbers low. Most were male and between the ages of 20 and 35, separated from their spouses and immediate families, and finding jobs working in Long Island’s landscaping, construction, and other day laborer employments.
The local church now has masses in Spanish in an effort to serve the ever increasing Salvadorean community. The once thriving Italian community has now shrunk to the point where only 1 mass is offered in Italian. I must note that the parish also offers one mass in Kreyol, so that community is also served.

Many of us on LI would have no issue with new legal immigrants who were willing to assimilate. After all, many of us are the offspring of legal immigrants. (My g-grandparents came in as a result of the Jones Act of 1917; my other g-grandmother through Ellis Island, and my paternal line through Boston and Brooklyn.)

Is it too much to ask for them to make an effort to learn English? To sweep the step outside their door? To not live like sardines? To behave like civilized human beings and not dogs in heat when a woman passes? To respect our laws?
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