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Old 05-20-2012, 05:45 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,065 times
Reputation: 111

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BTW c-j, what grade level do you think that you're writing at? For someone so concerned with learning English...

 
Old 05-20-2012, 07:18 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,296,509 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Oh, you're saying that they're not ALL learning English? As in, the number is somewhere under 100%. Well um, yeah.

And yes, I now realize that i should not act as if it is you talking. IT IS THE TEACHERS TALKING THROUGH YOU. How could I have been so blind?

FYI do not act as this is me talking. You do not know me. Act as if this is Jesus Christ speaking. Hear him out.
They are not all learning the English Language, and stop saying most of them are, they are not. I don't want to ever know you not to worry.
I would like for you to talk with the teachers i know, and hear the frustrations that they have. It slows down the pace of the classroom.
Things then have to be explained in Spanish, you do not see a problem with this, a lot of the teachers do. And believe me you are no J.C. believe that!
Sorry i don't buy that number, and i do not care where you got it from.
I know what elementary and H.S. Teachers are pissed about, they tell me and i would understand that if your a teacher, and you have to explain things in two languages, it would slow things down in the classroom, if you can't see that, tough.
And maybe all School Districts are not like this, but School Districts that have a huge hispanic population do experience this. Not lying, don't like what i have to say, don't read it, i pay no attention to you either.

Not hear to try and impress, i talk based on real life circumstances, and what i actually hear from teachers. You know what, why don't you get down on illegals who have been lviing in this Country for more then ten dang years, and don't know a lick of English, why not get pissed about this. Or do you not care about those who break the laws to get here. Teachers see it all you know, and i for one can understand the frustrations they must feel.

Something more important then talking to you right now, the ECLIPSE. Hate to run but i have too. That is so cool. to look at.
And don't be a smar-arse! I for one did not come up with a number, you did!

Last edited by california-jewel; 05-20-2012 at 08:46 PM..
 
Old 05-20-2012, 07:34 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Oh, you're saying that they're not ALL learning English? As in, the number is somewhere under 100%. Well um, yeah.

And yes, I now realize that i should not act as if it is you talking. IT IS THE TEACHERS TALKING THROUGH YOU. How could I have been so blind?

FYI do not act as this is me talking. You do not know me. Act as if this is Jesus Christ speaking. Hear him out.
Like I said before; NO more ESL; especially for illegal aliens. It needs to be tough to come to the US and making sure that legal aliens know some English or at least friends or family here to help them out if their English is really poor.
 
Old 05-20-2012, 08:51 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,065 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
They are not all learning the English Language, and stop saying most of them are, they are not. I don't want to ever know you not to worry.
Um, no, most of them definitely are. Go ahead and try to find a citation for what you said. Not sure what your last sentence here says, because unlike the children of illegal immigrants, you don't appear to have learned English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
You know what, why don't you get down on illegals who have been lviing in this Country for more then ten dang years, and don't know a lick of English, why not get pissed about this. Or do you not care about those who break the laws to get here.
Correct. As I've said many times, I genuinely don't care, none of those things bother me. I don't think people should be forced to learn a language to function in a society just because it makes it a tiny bit more convenient for you.
 
Old 05-20-2012, 08:54 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,296,509 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Um, no, most of them definitely are. Go ahead and try to find a citation for what you said. Not sure what your last sentence here says, because unlike the children of illegal immigrants, you don't appear to have learned English.



Correct. As I've said many times, I genuinely don't care, none of those things bother me. I don't think people should be forced to learn a language to function in a society just because it makes it a tiny bit more convenient for you.
And you know what, unlike you, i respect your opinion however i feel about it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,553,425 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I don't think people should be forced to learn a language to function in a society just because it makes it a tiny bit more convenient for you.
So, you think it's OK that in America, Spanish speaking people who can't speak English (as a result of not wanting to learn to speak/read/write English) demand that English speaking Americans, learn Spanish? I could understand if we were a Spanish speaking country, but the first language in the US is English. Would that demand be for their convenience?
 
Old 05-21-2012, 08:31 AM
 
5,235 posts, read 3,010,353 times
Reputation: 2007
Put the no habla ingles students in a special class if their english is bad or they are slowing things up.Then get some of these educated teachers who speaks Spanish to teach these classes to keep the kids up academically while they also learn english for beginners.

No problemo....people we should work together to solve problems not bicker and fight....lets all try to be polite....Have a Great Day!!!
 
Old 05-21-2012, 08:56 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,901 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post

Correct. As I've said many times, I genuinely don't care, none of those things bother me. I don't think people should be forced to learn a language to function in a society just because it makes it a tiny bit more convenient for you.
I agree.

No one should have to learn Spanish to meet the needs of illegals. No one should be taxed to provide interpreters nor should they be turned down from a job because they are not fluent in Spanish. Certainly no bus signs in Spanish for "pre-escolar gratis" (free preschool subsidized by state tax dollars) while they cut aides and music lessons at my daughter's school.



You want to come here and you're over 18? Great. Come here legally. Part of that requirement should be that you have to first show us passing scores on the reading and speaking sections of TOEFL or don't bother. Under eighteen? You get a year of immersion and that's it.

Americans should not be at a disadvantage to meet the needs of foreign nationals, let alone those who arrogantly break our immigration laws. Most us have nothing in common. The least we could do is agree upon a common language. If that irks the Latino lobby they'll have to get over it.

The arrogance of thinking otherwise -- that as a potential immigrant you literally have no responsibility to learn English -- perpetually astonishes me.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,013,920 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I agree.

No one should have to learn Spanish to meet the needs of illegals. No one should be taxed to provide interpreters nor should they be turned down from a job because they are not fluent in Spanish. Certainly no bus signs in Spanish for "pre-escolar gratis" (free preschool subsidized by state tax dollars) while they cut aides and music lessons at my daughter's school.



You want to come here and you're over 18? Great. Come here legally. Part of that requirement should be that you have to first show us passing scores on the reading and speaking sections of TOEFL or don't bother. Under eighteen? You get a year of immersion and that's it.

Americans should not be at a disadvantage to meet the needs of foreign nationals, let alone those who arrogantly break our immigration laws. Most us have nothing in common. The least we could do is agree upon a common language. If that irks the Latino lobby they'll have to get over it.

The arrogance of thinking otherwise -- that as a potential immigrant you literally have no responsibility to learn English -- perpetually astonishes me.
I think the implementation of ESL is not being understood here. The student is generally mainstreamed into the same classes as other students, and does the same curriculum, but receives assistance from an aide or the teacher to translate the portions of the assignments into their native tongue as they are learning English. It typically doesn't last more than a couple years with children, as they pick up English language skills quickly interacting with their peers in class.

The hyperbole of thinking that classes are taught for a student in Spanish up until the time they leave High School just isn't a rational position...

Why this topic was moved to Illegal Immigration, who knows, but the elements and discussion are always going back to where it should be put back in P&OC...
 
Old 05-21-2012, 01:04 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,901 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I think the implementation of ESL is not being understood here. The student is generally mainstreamed into the same classes as other students, and does the same curriculum, but receives assistance from an aide or the teacher to translate the portions of the assignments into their native tongue as they are learning English. It typically doesn't last more than a couple years with children, as they pick up English language skills quickly interacting with their peers in class.

The hyperbole of thinking that classes are taught for a student in Spanish up until the time they leave High School just isn't a rational position...

Why this topic was moved to Illegal Immigration, who knows, but the elements and discussion are always going back to where it should be put back in P&OC...
As usual you are misinterpreting my words to suit your ethnic agenda and demonstrate your own ignorance of this subject.

Some ESL classes are simply supplementary lessons. Many others are full day affairs where the student gets a handful of English lessons each week while the teacher teaches most of the class in Spanish. The demand for preservation of ethnic identity over reasonable assimiliation and full English fluency is one of the primary reasons hispanic academic achievement rates such as earning a high school diploma lag so far behind many other groups.

It needs to stop. The only hyperbole is your underlying assertion that anyone who knows the facts of the matter is nothing more than an ignorant bigot.

Studies show repeatedly that the best way to learn a foreign language is immersion, especially for children under twelve. Any foreign national who wants to come here to live permanently must be made to understand that English acquisition is mandatory not optional. His linguistic failures in that regard will certainly NOT be rewarded with publically subsidized intepreters and accommodations at every turn.

I find it ridiculous why anyone should think otherwise. If I were to move to Mexico I would learn Spanish. If I were to move to France I would learn French first. If you want to move here the very least you need to do is demonstrate English fluency. Anything else demonstrates a fundamental contempt for our society and should be met with firmly unpleasant and costly consequences. for the lazy person in question.
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