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Old 05-21-2012, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
As usual you are misinterpreting my words to suit your ethnic agenda and demonstrate your own ignorance of this subject.

Some ESL classes are simply supplementary lessons. Many others are full day affairs where the student gets a handful of English lessons each week while the teacher teaches most of the class in Spanish. The demand for preservation of ethnic identity over reasonable assimiliation and full English fluency is one of the primary reasons hispanic academic achievement rates such as earning a high school diploma lag so far behind many other groups.

It needs to stop. The only hyperbole is your underlying assertion that anyone who knows the facts of the matter is nothing more than an ignorant bigot.

Studies show repeatedly that the best way to learn a foreign language is immersion, especially for children under twelve. Any foreign national who wants to come here to live permanently must be made to understand that English acquisition is mandatory not optional. His linguistic failures in that regard will certainly NOT be rewarded with publically subsidized intepreters and accommodations at every turn.

I find it ridiculous why anyone should think otherwise. If I were to move to Mexico I would learn Spanish. If I were to move to France I would learn French first. If you want to move here the very least you need to do is demonstrate English fluency. Anything else demonstrates a fundamental contempt for our society and should be met with firmly unpleasant and costly consequences. for the lazy person in question.
I am merely stating the way I have seen school-related ESL programs implemented, with first-hand experience. Your vitriolic response is otherwise rejected by me, I'm ready to categorize it into irrational nonsense. It is relatively clear that any topic consigned to the Illegal Immigration forum has no hope of breaking free from the constant themes allowed to run amok here.

 
Old 05-21-2012, 03:57 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I am merely stating the way I have seen school-related ESL programs implemented, with first-hand experience. Your vitriolic response is otherwise rejected by me, I'm ready to categorize it into irrational nonsense. It is relatively clear that any topic consigned to the Illegal Immigration forum has no hope of breaking free from the constant themes allowed to run amok here.
Your personal experience is simply your personal experience. It does not make it a fact. And the vitriol tends to come from your prior behavior towards other posters including myself. In the past few months alone you've labeled me bitter out of the blue in an unrelated thread which I had not posted in and ridiculously accused me of racism because I called an illegal on welfare Pedro -- despite the fact that that Pedro was indeed the guy's name.

I agree the constant themes of false accusations of racism, assertions that Americans are fundamentally ignorant and selfish human beings and people who break our immigration laws nothing but saints are not to this forum's credit

Many ESL programs are actually bilingual programs where the primary aim is not English language acquisition but making sure the kid never, ever for five seconds forgets he's Mexican or fails to remember a single word of Spanish. Such programs are not aimed at making sure the kid becomes a fully functional American citizen but aimed instead of immersing him in an ideology based largely around ethnicity and vast contempt for America.

I did a paper in college on the problems that result from this idiotic policy idea. I strongly suggest you read the works of scholars such as Rosalie Pedalino Porter for more information on this subject to augment your alleged personal experience in this area.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 05:00 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbdowndemocrats View Post
Put the no habla ingles students in a special class if their english is bad or they are slowing things up.Then get some of these educated teachers who speaks Spanish to teach these classes to keep the kids up academically while they also learn english for beginners.

No problemo....people we should work together to solve problems not bicker and fight....lets all try to be polite....Have a Great Day!!!
The thing is though that many of these kids are here illegally or so are their parents giving birth on our soil. Why should we have to accomodate them? Who is bickering and fighting? It isn't being polite by objecting to this nonsense?
 
Old 05-21-2012, 07:23 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
I knew a teacher out in the desert and she told me how hard it was getting to teach with so many non-English speaking, Spanish speaking students entering our schools. She was a staunch opponent of "No child left behind" also. That program in part was initiated to force teachers to bring these non-English speaking students up to snuff and it created a lot of hardship on the teachers as they had less time to spend on native English speakers.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,287,998 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The thing is though that many of these kids are here illegally or so are their parents giving birth on our soil. Why should we have to accomodate them? Who is bickering and fighting? It isn't being polite by objecting to this nonsense?

Some school districts, the majority of kids, do not speak english. And yes this i know. If these people cannot come to this Country the legal way, learn to at least speak some english. Then we should not have to accomodate these kids at all. Sorry a lot of them are illegals, dispute all you want. Like i said, i know teachers in different school districts, and the Superintendent in some School Districts.
I would like to say the name of some of the schools i know of that are mainly hispanic students, who do not speak english. But not going to do this.
And if some on here, do not like the way illegals are treated, you can always become an illegal in Mexico, let me know how that go's for you once there, and you pull the same stuff that illegals do here.
At least you realize that so many of these children are here illegally. Infact i know some who are. The parents do not even speak English, to me this is pathetic, why should we have to make life easy on these people.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 07:41 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
Some school districts, the majority of kids, do not speak english. And yes this i know. If these people cannot come to this Country the legal way, learn to at least speak some english. Then we should not have to accomodate these kids at all. Sorry a lot of them are illegals, dispute all you want. Like i said, i know teachers in different school districts, and the Superintendent in some School Districts.
I would like to say the name of some of the schools i know of that are mainly hispanic students, who do not speak english. But not going to do this.
And if some on here, do not like the way illegals are treated, you can always become an illegal in Mexico, let me know how that go's for you once there, and you pull the same stuff that illegals do here.
At least you realize that so many of these children are here illegally. Infact i know some who are. The parents do not even speak English, to me this is pathetic, why should we have to make life easy on these people.

See my post above. Living in Calif. myself I know what you are saying is true about the hardships that our schools are going through with so many mono-lingual Spanish speaking students entering our schools. If this was due mostly from legal immigration the problem wouldn't be of this magnitude.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 07:48 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,287,998 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
See my post above. Living in Calif. myself I know what you are saying is true about the hardships that our schools are going through with so many mono-lingual Spanish speaking students entering our schools. If this was due mostly from legal immigration the problem wouldn't be of this magnitude.
So good that someone who lives in this State, actually knows the hardships so many of the School Districts face, because of this situation.
Good speaking with someone lke you.
Some don't see this as a problem, as a teacher, this is a denitite problem.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 08:36 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
So good that someone who lives in this State, actually knows the hardships so many of the School Districts face, because of this situation.
Good speaking with someone lke you.
Some don't see this as a problem, as a teacher, this is a denitite problem.
Yes, and it isn't just Calif. either. I imagine that most of the southwestern school districts are going through the same thing. Now that illegal aliens are all over our country there are very few school districts immune to this type of thing.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 09:02 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
And you know what, unlike you, i respect your opinion however i feel about it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings.
Yeah it's not feelings when you say "most of them aren't learning English." That's an actual data point that I know you can't support.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 09:07 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
So, you think it's OK that in America, Spanish speaking people who can't speak English (as a result of not wanting to learn to speak/read/write English) demand that English speaking Americans, learn Spanish? I could understand if we were a Spanish speaking country, but the first language in the US is English. Would that demand be for their convenience?
What demands are you talking about, exactly? Like, I don't think that anyone should be legally required to speak a given language to work or hang out with friends drinking beer or go to a Yankees game, no matter what the language is and what the country is.
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