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Old 07-28-2010, 12:13 AM
 
2,318 posts, read 1,465,223 times
Reputation: 540

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PRESS ONE TO SPEAK ENGLISH !

I notice now we the tax payers are setting up classes for immigrants to use english as a second language .

What the hell is wrong with just english and unless your home shut the hell up .

Aanyone else tied of the nerve these foreigners have when they come here with all their needs and want us to change for them ?

 
Old 07-28-2010, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
26,484 posts, read 24,217,574 times
Reputation: 7672
No, I'm not bothered by it. I'm glad my tax dollars are going toward teaching English to immigrants. It's important for them to learn the language, and my god - do you realize how cheap it is to run those programs? Many ESL teachers are even volunteers. I taught ESL for a short time myself.

If you want to get upset about your tax dollars being spent, I think there are a lot bigger things to worry about.
 
Old 07-28-2010, 12:38 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,285,252 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy&Me View Post
PRESS ONE TO SPEAK ENGLISH !

I notice now we the tax payers are setting up classes for immigrants to use english as a second language .

What the hell is wrong with just english and unless your home shut the hell up .

Aanyone else tied of the nerve these foreigners have when they come here with all their needs and want us to change for them ?

Have a gripe, seems you have quite a few, BRING them to your Government. What are you doing to change these things that you hate, I write to my local politicians all the time, email them, to know just how i am feeling, and what needs to be done to make things right. Why don't you tell the President that was going to bring all this Change, about your feelings for Foreigners, don't think he will agree with you! Then what.
 
Old 07-28-2010, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,445 posts, read 7,551,913 times
Reputation: 12110
Changes started in Arizona 6 minutes ago. Let's see what happens.
 
Old 07-28-2010, 01:17 AM
 
2,318 posts, read 1,465,223 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Changes started in Arizona 6 minutes ago. Let's see what happens.

Good idea since most here are on the side of the criminals .
 
Old 07-28-2010, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,131 posts, read 4,315,819 times
Reputation: 2636
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
No, I'm not bothered by it. I'm glad my tax dollars are going toward teaching English to immigrants. It's important for them to learn the language, and my god - do you realize how cheap it is to run those programs? Many ESL teachers are even volunteers. I taught ESL for a short time myself.

If you want to get upset about your tax dollars being spent, I think there are a lot bigger things to worry about.
Why are you glad your tax dollars are going towards these programs? Why do immigrants come here without knowing how to speak the language to begin with? What purpose do these people serve in this country if they can't speak the language? Why would we possibly want them? If they don't speak English, they probably havn't gone to college, they have no skills.

I know I sound harsh, and that isn't my intent, but be realistic, seriously.

Immigration only exists because of one of two reasons. The first is economic, immigration is generally useful to fill labor shortages. Especially seasonal jobs(like farming), where most of the population needs to have a consistent job/income and so labor is usually not available(especially low-wage labor) to fill these needs. So, you have migrant workers. Who come seasonally then go back home. Sometimes the economy expands too quickly and you need immigrants to fill a more consistent labor shortage(my sister lives in Dalton, Georgia and when the economy was good, the carpet mills were desperate for labor and were bringing in large numbers of legal and illegal immigrants). This type of economic immigration is the foundation of this country. This country was massive, and possessed massive amounts of resources, the labor needs to exploit these resources was very high(this was back before modern technology like heavy equipment/tractors/etc). This cheap labor was in the form of the starving Irish, and religious refugees. Who came to America just to have their own land, or who just needed work(right now they are giving away land in many cities across the country, because the cities just want people to build up the cities and pay in taxes).

The second type of immigration is in the form of humanitarianism. Basically, people have it badly back home, so lets bring them here so they can have a better life. Which is very noble, but it is sort of unrealistic, at least in how we do it. Obviously if the goal is to give assistance to people in other countries, then why limit it? Why have limits on immigration at all? Why not just pass amnesty to do the 12-20 million illegals that are already here? Why not just throw the borders open to all the Africans and latin-americans that would come streaming in here by any means they can find?

The truth is, individually and socially this country does not benefit from immigration(and this really goes back all the way to when this country was founded). This country wasn't better because the Irish came here, or Italians, back then Americans complained all the time about the dangers of large-scale catholic immigration. But American business and the government do benefit from large-scale immigration. Why?

California produces something like 1/3rd of all the food grown in this entire country. California is also one of the most expensive states in the country, with high labor costs. A very large portion of the food grown in this country is sold to other countries. It is very important that the cost for food production stays low, and to achieve this, we need immigrants. This benefits the companies and ultimately the economy and the government. While many individuals don't necessarily benefit because of the potential loss of jobs and dangers associated with illegal immigration. The politicians themselves are just pawns that play the immigration debate to their political advantage. Immigration helps grow the population to provide more resources for our ever-growing empire. The United States historically only spends about 4% of GDP on national defense, which is a low number compared to many other countries. But, 4% of a GDP of over 14 trillion ends up being a very large number.

The real problem with immigration is an individual and social issue.

People tend to look at money as just being dollars, and that dollars don't really mean anything. But dollars really mean resources, but I like to think of them as representation of an individuals time(where that time could represent anything). Anytime anyone spends money, they are really spending their time, or someone elses time.

Take a saying like "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson

The problem is, in this sense you are basically giving money to someone who provides no resources of their own, just because they spend their money doesn't necessarily make the situation acceptable. If that person who refuses to work was working for that money, then he would also be producing something of value. If half of all people were receiving money for effectively doing nothing, then this country would be half as productive as it otherwise would be. And the people who do work would basically get less resources back as the resources are being spread out across the population.

The problem with immigration is that, because the government funnels money into stupid programs(in this case is to pay for the time of individuals to educate immigrants in English, who might otherwise be doing something more productive, like building roads, mass-transit systems, houses, installing solar panels or insulation or some other energy efficiency system instead of using their productive capacity to do something that doesn't necessarily benefit us at all). Because the government pumps money into doctors and hospitals(basically utilizing the collective time of several people) to provide healthcare to immigrants, especially women who come here specifically to have their child here as an anchor-baby. This is utilizing the time of Americans in an unproductive way. That time could have been much better used to build parks, schools, to provide educations for our children, or even building homes for our needy. Basically, anytime the government spends money on people who aren't Americans, or who have no productive output, it is taking away money from you, it is making you work extra for no benefit to yourself.

And the worst case of this is always war. Immigration isn't good, but it losses are fairly small compared to many other government expenses. Those immigrants usually do provide some overall benefits(as mentioned before). But war is the absolute worst waste of resources. A bomb, a bullet, a fighter plane, a ship, people dying, people coming back crippled for life, etc. A bomb serves no actual function, neither the act of producing it, nor the cost of buying it, nor the act of dropping it from a plane. None of it is ever productive all along the entire chain. And the money spent in wars undoubtedly leaves this country. We might as well just go into a field and light massive piles of dollars on fire.

The real problem with immigration though is really a cultural issue. The economic benefits of controlled immigration(to meet labor needs) are quite numerous, which is why most people don't care about immigration until unemployment goes up. The cultural aspect is why there was always so much of a push for assimilation in early America. This was the melting pot. People came here, learned to speak English, adopted America values and way-of-life, and became an American. There was no one talking about multi-culturalism, there wasn't talk about diversity. And this is where immigration is going terribly wrong. The cultural destruction of unchecked immigration will be devastating. And it is now so politically impossible to stand up to the floodgates of immigration.

The real key to fixing the bad situation we are in now with immigration is through very limited government. Giving states back their original rights and powers. Repealing the birthright and American citizenship clauses in the 14th amendment. Then repealing drug prohibition(which I don't even understand why it is constitutional). Then completely tossing out the silly concept of multi-culturalism. You wouldn't even need to have a wall between us and Mexico anymore.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-28-2010 at 06:26 AM..
 
Old 07-28-2010, 06:33 AM
 
8,797 posts, read 5,336,607 times
Reputation: 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
No, I'm not bothered by it. I'm glad my tax dollars are going toward teaching English to immigrants. It's important for them to learn the language, and my god - do you realize how cheap it is to run those programs? Many ESL teachers are even volunteers. I taught ESL for a short time myself.

If you want to get upset about your tax dollars being spent, I think there are a lot bigger things to worry about.
I think the point should be ... not that there are more important things to worry about ... but that the heist of other people's hard earned money needs to stop altogether, with that being ANOTHER ONE OF THE MANY EXAMPLES.

But from your perspective (the liberal logic) ... I can see where it makes sense ... cheeper to teach them english, than it is to equip all hospitals, DMV's, Social Security Offices, Welfare Offices with interpreters and dual language forms for everything.

The Conservative Logic is that there is only one group of forms needed to cure the whole problem ... the Immigration forms ... all english ... no speak english ... no papers! No papers? Bye bye. Problem solved.

I don't care what you want to do with your money ... you don't have a right to steal mine and donate it to your causes.
 
Old 07-28-2010, 06:38 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
English needs to remain the first language of this country.

And we need to enforce immigration laws, give preference to those would-be immigrants who were smart enough to learn English before coming here. We don't need millions of taxpayer burdens who expect a free ride for everything.
 
Old 07-28-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,215 posts, read 7,340,869 times
Reputation: 7039
Most of us had ancestors who came from other countries not knowing how to speak English. I have no problem with tax payers setting up classes to teach immigrants English as a second language. We've always been a country of immigrants, so learning English is nothing new and a worthy cause to put tax payer dollars. As someone else mentioned, above it's cheap and cheaper than the alternative.
 
Old 07-28-2010, 10:48 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,957,665 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy&Me View Post
PRESS ONE TO SPEAK ENGLISH !

I notice now we the tax payers are setting up classes for immigrants to use english as a second language .

What the hell is wrong with just english and unless your home shut the hell up .

Aanyone else tied of the nerve these foreigners have when they come here with all their needs and want us to change for them ?



"ESL" is for immigrants who DON'T speak English to LEARN English.

Why on earth would you have a problem with that? You appear to be so hung up on the "as a second language" part you're missing the point of the classes. It has nothing to do with establishing which language they will use primarily in their day to day life in the United States!
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