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Old 07-28-2010, 10:54 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
I don't have to make points with you. All I have to do is intellectually defeat anything that erroneously challenges the valid points I make. All I have to do is intellectually defeat your responses to my posts.
Riiiiiight ... lol, keep thinking that. You're trying too hard. When you start talking about how you are going to "intellectually" do something that's when I know you are full of it. People who talk about being intellectual, usually aren't, lol. Sorry, you can try again some other time.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:58 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
I don't have to make points with you. All I have to do is intellectually defeat anything that erroneously challenges the valid points I make. All I have to do is intellectually defeat your responses to my posts.

And they do have to do with illegal immigration. Whether illegals pay taxes or not into the school district, how increased populations affect certain districts and how they don't, etc... that is all valid to illegal immigration. SoEdible, illegal immigration affects different people in different ways. When people talk about how illegals are "flooding the schools" they need to show where this is happening, and how. It is not "common sense" as many communities are seeing schools closing, etc.

To put it this way: I am not affected by a flood of illegals in my community, so show me how this is happening in your community and show me why I should care about illegal immigration in your community. Show me the beef. Tell me specifics so I can determine how illegal immigration is affecting your community specifically.
Show you the "beef?" LOL I don't need you to care about my community if you don't want to because at this rate, I'm sure our problems will eventually become your problems, haha.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:24 PM
 
4,269 posts, read 7,885,000 times
Reputation: 1551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Show you the "beef?" LOL I don't need you to care about my community if you don't want to because at this rate, I'm sure our problems will eventually become your problems, haha.
So therefore you get no help and support from me, because I have no proof of the issue in your community.

And your problems won't become mine because of how Houston is developing, the Texas state taxation system, the presence of the Texas Rangers, the fact that my area is getting more expensive, etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Riiiiiight ... lol, keep thinking that. You're trying too hard. When you start talking about how you are going to "intellectually" do something that's when I know you are full of it. People who talk about being intellectual, usually aren't, lol. Sorry, you can try again some other time.
You say "When you start talking about how you are going to "intellectually" do something that's when I know you are full of it. " When you stop trying to argue that the issues I mention have nothing to do with illegal immigration, you acknowledge that my points are correct. People who "intellectually" do something and who do not fall into blind emotion are the best at deciding what is best for our country.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,464 posts, read 20,002,503 times
Reputation: 22367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If the Feds don’t enforce the law, citizens are going to start taking matters into their own hands, and it won’t be pretty.
Highly doubtful! They started removing the spines and balls of babies in this country
years ago to prevent civil unrest. No spine, no balls, no guts, no glory!

You have to make people far more uncomfortable/insecure in this comfort/security-driven country for for such dreams to materialize!
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,450 posts, read 7,551,913 times
Reputation: 12114
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Pro- criminals? And your side is the pro- racists and pro- bigots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
How does wanting criminals dealt with properly make one a racist and/or a biggot? I really don't understand that. Could you please explain. I wait patiently for your response. Something tells me I will be waiting a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Still waiting for a response to my question blacknight, it's been two hours now.
Twelve hours later and still no response to my simple question in regards to his liberal accusation. Can any other liberal answer this question written in bold since blacknight wussed out? Once again, I wait patiently.
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:33 AM
 
Location: North Phoenix
1,128 posts, read 1,405,321 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Even when they are taking advantage of that system? I do not know you personally, but you write that as though you are a person who thinks that all undocumented people are as sweet as they can be, only here to make an HONEST living (they make it dishonest from the start) and are the nicest people on the planet with no ill intentions. It's not like that, I know undocumented people personally, they don't give a damn about you, the fact that you are nice enough to work hard for them and their 5 children or that they are taking a legal residents job. All they care about is money, taking advantage of this country and all the while still retaining loyalty to their country. Even if just a few were that way, how can we and you justify taking care of them here?
That's funny because I know many people from Mexico as well as other Latino countries and they are very kind people. Some were people from work that we became friends with and spent a lot of time together. When I needed something they were always there to help me out.
There may be some that take advantage of the system if they can, your right, but ther's many more Americans doing just that.
And as for these much coveted jobs that everyone keeps talking about...well, I don't know a lot of Americans that want to work as dishwashers or landscapers. I did landscaping for 4 years back around 2000, and anyone could have worked there, they were always hiring, but I think besides me and the other 2 supervisors, just about everyone else was Mexican, with a few Iraqis and Native Americans thrown in. So to say that American jobs are being stolen is BS, the only jobs we are losing are the ones being outsourced to other countries! Is that the illegal immmigrants fault too?
These people are already here, if they were just made legal they could be paying taxes and join our (stressed out) military and maybe actually save us money in the long run. And yeah, the border needs to be sealed like I said earlier.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,887,589 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post





If this is across Long Island, then why not show a particular district as an example so people outside of Long Island can understand what is happening?
Which of the 127 school districts would you like me to cite? (I wish it were a little more condensed like citing one large city district.)

LI is 121 miles long but consists of many different communities ranging from a two cities down to towns with a couple of hundred people max. (Brooklyn and Queens are on LI, but consider themselves NYC and are part of the NYC school system.) Nassau and Suffolk Counties comprise LI that people refer to.

Within the counties there are Towns - 3 in Nassau, 10 in Suffolk (The town I live in has a population not too far from that of the entire State of VT) and within the Towns there are Hamlets, Villages, Postal zones and CDPs, plus 2 reservations.

Lifestyles range from Urban to rural, dense to sparse population, NYC commuters to farmhands and fishermen, Hollywood types, Wall Street tycoons to maids and gardeners. LI shore communities tend to have more expensive RE than those in the middle Island. Illegal immigration on LI centers around the wealthy and the farms, and the tourist industry.

The local newpaper, Newsday, is pay to view online, so I can't give you functioning links to a full article. I am sorry -- that's out of my control.

I did find a very recent article in which the NYCLU found a number of NYS & LI districts engaging in a practice of creating barriers to prevent illegal aliens from attending the schools.

NYCLU: 1 in 5 New York State School Districts Puts Up Illegal Barriers for Immigrant Children : Features : Long Island Wins

Some of the schools are in affluent areas -- how shocking -- Maria can scrub the toilet, but her son Joselito can't attend schools with Muffy.

The middle class and lower middle class areas on the list are being inundated with a larger illegal population as they are either conveniently located to the affluent areas, or they are inexpensive places to live (values driven down by greater numbers of Section 8, sex offenders and such.)

As I wrote before, our school taxes keep rising and districts are looking to reduce costs wherever possible. The districts in the article were trying to save money by preventing people who are in the country illegally from coming in and requiring more costly services. It is in violation of the law and while I don't condone this, I don't condone illegal immigration, either.

I have lived in 3 of the districts on the list. Two districts have a very small commercial tax base, which makes the school tax burden very high on the residents. Of those two, one is affluent and multicultured, the other solid blue collar and a tad xenophobic. The third district is a mix of blue collar, young couples looking for a decent school district with reasonably priced housing, but a place where section 8, welfare and illegals are more prevalent.

The affluent district has an outlier whose wealth skewed the NYS formula for school taxes. (The man is a Forbes billionaire) This district also has working single mothers and blue collar workers on the other end of the spectrum. Their houses are small and reasonably priced. To keep their homes, illegal apartments are going in. Add a few more children into one house which is still paying the same school tax as before the illegal apartment, and one is effectively reducing the tax money available per pupil. Figure in ESL, free breakfast and lunch programs and the budget grows tighter.

The affluent district is also in an area where there is a university which has faculty from around the world. In the case of this district, a number of parents and students have visas and are citizens elsewhere. In this case, I have to ask, what other form of ID would the parents have to ID their child for school enrollment? (I am being serious, not fresh here.)

The other two districts have the same issues with people creating illegal apartments in their houses, however do not have a broad international community; rather smaller foreign born populations from south of the border. This isn't a matter of a Czech physicist here for a year to work on a project, like the first district.
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Tea Party Headquaters
152 posts, read 180,843 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
As predicted, the “reasonable suspicion” clause has been blocked. Basically, all contentious aspects of the law have been stricken. Also, non-citizens will not be required to carry proof of legal status, which is mandated by Federal law. The law will become effective tomorrow, but with mega restrictions.

Federal judge rules on Arizona's immigration law

Again Congress and Obama are not listening to the "American People".
Now we can ADD a Judge to our/my LIST.
First, What I consider as primary issues for our country!
1. Economy
2. Security of OUR Country (second only because we need our economy to support it).
With Judge Susan Bolton ruling AGAINST "American People" and for "Illegal Aliens", she is supporting
WHO?
1. Obama
2. Clinton
3. Nancy Pelosi
4. Harry Reid
5. Barney Frank
Here is what I see with the judgement against 1070.
I see Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Susan Bolton saying the "HECK" with what the "American
People" want, AGAIN.
They are also telling our Law Enforcement they could care less about the increase of Arizona Law
Enforcement Officer Deaths in the Line of Duty.
I read somewhere the other day that Law Enforcement deaths in Arizona; were up ??% in the last few
years, a lot to do with "ILLEGAL ALIENS & DRUGS," both go hand in hand since it deals with the
border. (I'll have to go back to find link I saved somewhere.)
NEWS FLASH AMERICA, Arizona is just the starting point.
Not only will we see an appeal, but I foresee the following:
First I see Law Enforcement Officers doing the following.
1. Talking amongst themselves more about the "Illegal Alien Issue."
2. Identifying among themselves who supports "Obama's View" on this.
3. Dishing out some "Serpico Justice."
4. Confronting their Boss about where they stand on the "Illegal Alien Issue."
5. Telling their Boss "THEIR VIEWS" need to be passed on to their Mayor's, Governor's, etc.
6. Getting THEIR UNION involved, to support a "National strike" if Politicians do not support them.
CAN YOU SEE IT? A National Police Force on Strike?
If you are a movie writer, TV series writer, novel writer, I already see these coming out.
Like Vic Makey on "The shield", and a novel series "Mack Bolan" aka "The Executioner".
I wonder what President Obama will do if The Governor Of Arizona calls her State National Guard to
Duty to Secure her border. Or Army Reserve, which ever she has jurisdiction over. As you know, the
Constitution gives the states the right to protect themselves with their own military.
I can see Texas, Arizona, and other states calling their local commanders to see what the current
GDP "General Defense Plan" looks like.
At first to see how they can fight against who ever attacks their state, ie, Drug dealers, "Illegal
Aliens" street gangs, etc. Then to see if their is another "civil War" how does the plan look.
My Question is, is President Obama the person that will cause the next American Civil War?
Our first civil war was over slavery. Since our government wishes to use "Illegal Aliens" as their
power base, and not listen to the "American People", I see some major problems in the future.
I saw the news, the other night when they said DEA and ICE have known for years that the "Drug
Cartel" have lookouts high in the mountains in Arizona to help guide their drug shipments and
Illegal Aliens to avoid ICE patrols.
How long has the NEWS Media known this?
Why isn't our government doing something about it?
Can you foresee the future headlines now? I do.
Can you see the new books and movies?
"Ex-Special Forces and Ex-Navy Seals", team-up and conduct operations in Arizona Mountains to take
out Drug Cartel lookouts. Equipped with 5 paragraph operations order, night vision sights, Ground
Surveillance Radar, sniper rifles, immigrant clothing to blend in.
The Director of ICE was on the news a few months ago saying he will not do his job.
If anyone else said that, they'd be fired.
So we are paying a whole Agency to sit on their hands, and watch porn on agency computers?
Ever since Arizona 1070 made the news, we've heard about other states and companies Boycotting
Arizona.
I've seen "1" one news coverage about the mass demonstrations in Arizona, where a Police Officer was
hit in the head by something that was thrown at him.
OUR NEWS MEDIA LOVES to pride themselves on THEIR COVERAGE of "news". Like what's her name going to
jail.
Kind of makes me wonder. Is our news media is any different than that of China, during the Tiananmen
Square incident?
I wonder how many Officers were hurt since the passing of 1070.
Were there RIOTS?
I thought about writing RICK PERRY, my Governor; who also supports "ILLEGAL ALIENS."
I was going to write him and have him coordinate with Arizona, that if they need any "Law
Enforcement" help, with everything that is going on; feel free to ask us.
But now that I see how "RICK Perry" views the issue, I knew that would have been a waste of my time.
I'm not to sure I will vote for "RICK PERRY" this time. (HOPE HE READS THIS)
A few weeks ago I remember a story that made news about "HOMELAND SECURITY" issued a warning that
they had intell about someone from the middle east was suppose to come across the MEXICAN border.
It doesn't take an INTELLIGENCY SPECIALIST, to put the following together.
Afghanistan is an OPIUM country. The best place for MEXICAN DRUG CARTEL to buy their stuff. And the
CARTEL will help terrorist cross their borders.
So is the war in Afghanistan important? DUH.

links:
APA - Arizona Police Association
APA - Arizona Police Association
Mack Bolan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exe...r_(book_series)
Law enforcement deaths up 42 percent nationally
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/loc...cc4c002e0.html
Police Fatalities Surge 43 Percent in 2010
FOXNews.com - Police Fatalities Surge 43 Percent in 2010
Mexican Drug Cartels Threaten Arizona Police - ABC News
Mexican Drug Cartels Threaten Arizona Police - ABC News
Feds Issue Terror Watch for the Texas/Mexico Border
FOXNews.com - Feds Issue Terror Watch for the Texas/Mexico Border
Drug Cartel Activity Threatens Texas Water Supplies, Lawmaker Says
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/21/drug-cartel-activity-threatens-texas-water-supplies (broken link)-
lawmaker-says/
1989: Massacre in Tiananmen Square
BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1989: Massacre in Tiananmen Square
link below
Is Obama Really Preparing For Civil War?
is from
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...reparing-civil-
war.html
I'll have to stop for now and consider this as "Part 1" before it gets to long.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:48 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl;
There may be some that take advantage of the system if they can, your right, but ther's many more Americans doing just that.

Exactly, which means we shouldn't have to serve as a "safety valve" for Latin American nations to push their poor and unwanteds to us. Maybe back in 1900 that would be OK because there was no social welfare state, but NOW, every dollar spent on an uninvited immigrant is a dollar that does not go to CITIZENS or our invited immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl;
And as for these much coveted jobs that everyone keeps talking about...well, I don't know a lot of Americans that want to work as dishwashers or landscapers. I did landscaping for 4 years back around 2000, and anyone could have worked there, they were always hiring, but I think besides me and the other 2 supervisors, just about everyone else was Mexican, with a few Iraqis and Native Americans thrown in. So to say that American jobs are being stolen is BS, the only jobs we are losing are the ones being outsourced to other countries! Is that the illegal immmigrants fault too?
Travel outside of Arizona to the northern states. White guys, black guys, etc. all work landscaping, construction, etc., and will continue to do so until the prevailing wages for their jobs are driven down by a horde of workers willing to work poverty wages to do the same work? My father is a LEGAL immigrant. Back in the early 90s he did construction in Florida.... the wage was about 8.50/hourish. Fast forward to 2010.... the wage is about the same, only the type of people doing the construction work has changed, because Americans not willing to live 10 guys to a small house cannot compete.

I mean, hell, maybe Americans should just resign themselves to living a third world type existence, a la South America? Will that make you happy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixscorpiogirl
hese people are already here, if they were just made legal they could be paying taxes and join our (stressed out) military and maybe actually save us money in the long run. And yeah, the border needs to be sealed like I said earlier.
So tell you what.... I'm going to move into your house tomorrow. I'm not going to ask, I'm just going to move in. You have no say in the matter. I'm going to set up shop in your living room, and start a family there. We'll use your electricity and water, and eat the food in your refrigerator. If you try to have me evicted, I will call you racist. Don't worry though, I will wash your dishes for you and trim your hedges, but you will not be able to have me removed because I'm "already there" and comfortable. Besides, don't you feel bad for me? And heck, you don't LIKE doing dishes, do you?
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:44 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
But it did not belong to England to begin with. It belongs to the Indians and the southwest to the Mexicans. We robbed it from them. So if go into a 7-11 and pull out a gun and kill everybody and take the cash, I guess that means I get to keep it?

How did the Southwest "belong" to the Mexicans? If the US "stole" the land from the Natives, so did Mexico.

Again, Mexican Indians do not equal Native American Indians. Mexico had a problem with American Indians raiding their settlements in the Southwest because the Southwest WAS NOT MEXICO's to take, but through conquest and settlement.


And like the poster above says, your analogy is preposterous. Acquisition of land through conquest and war, especially a couple of centuries ago, was not illegal. Indeed, it was the norm. Name any civilization on earth that hasn't had territorial disputes and borders meted out by war and conflict?
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