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Old 07-29-2010, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,359 posts, read 14,233,175 times
Reputation: 10162

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Quote:
Originally Posted by averagejoe76 View Post
Heres a fun fact about America's theft of CA,NM,AZ,TX.
We bought that land in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and....
There were approximately 80,000 Mexicans in the areas of California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas..
And during this period they made up 20% of the population.20%!!!
Just curious - I don't know the history here but...

how is it a theft when you say the land was bought by means of a treaty?
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Wichita,Kansas
2,731 posts, read 5,953,469 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Just curious - I don't know the history here but...

how is it a theft when you say the land was bought by means of a treaty?

It was sarcasm,another poster had claimed that we "stole"..
CA,TX,NM,AZ from Mexico.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:41 PM
 
4,317 posts, read 7,931,523 times
Reputation: 1579
The concept behind public education in Texas is that some people pay less into the system than others, and that the people who buy more luxuries subsidize those who don't buy as many luxuries. Even if illegals do not pay say $8,000 per year, through rent and through buying McDonald's they may pay a fraction of that.

I decided to look at the report, but first checked the authorship. The journal itself is published by John Tanton. The Southern Poverty Law Center recovered documents on Tanton: The Tanton Files | Southern Poverty Law Center - His motivations are out of racism, and that inherently damages all attempts from that individual to make a report against illegal immigration. Unless Tanton wins in a libel suit against the SPLC, I will take the SPLC document here as the truth. As for Rubenstein, the person who wrote the report, this SPLC article examines him and another report he wrote: Immigration Report Being Released Today Linked to White Supremacists | Hatewatch | Southern Poverty Law Center

Now with the report itself: The Burden of Plyler v. Doe by Edwin S. Rubenstein - The Social Contract Press - Even though Tanton's own motivations make it difficult to take the report and how it got written seriously, I'll go look at it anyway:

Quote:
Most legal scholars see Pyler v Doe as a naked usurpation of Congressional powers - an attempt to make up for the legislative branch's inability or unwillingness to deal with the illegal alien problem. It stands as a monument to judicial activism.
- Who are these legal scholars? What are their standing in the legal community? How do you define judicial activism, or for that matter negative judicial activism?

The cites coming from VDare (why cite VDare?) or from FAIR (That is a case of one citing himself, like Jack Chick tracts citing works from Chick Publications - FAIR is also a creation of John Tanton) are 3 and 4 (VDare) and 7 and 10 (FAIR) - And then an editorial by Rich Lowry is cited for 16.

For instance the paper says
"Even Justice Brennan, in his majority opinion, admitted that "public education is not a 'right' granted to individuals by the Constitution."4" citing it to 4. Why cite a VDare report when they should have cited the original document in which justice Brennan commented? Were they afraid that if somebody saw the paper, they would see clarification and reasoning that would explain this? They should have directly cited the Supreme Court document or news source.

"Most legal scholars see Pyler v Doe as a naked usurpation of Congressional powers, an attempt to make up for the legislative branch's inability or unwillingness to deal with the illegal alien problem. Yet it stands as a monument to judicial activism." isn't sourced. It doesn't explain who these legal scholars are.

"Nearly two-thirds of the children of illegal aliens enrolled in U.S. schools were born in the U.S." isn't sourced.

"Illegal alien enrollment varies greatly among the states. California is widely acknowledged to have the heaviest concentration, with more than 15% of public school enrollments comprised of children of illegal aliens. In five other states-Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Nevada and Texas-at least one-in-ten students have parents who are illegal aliens. More than 5% of students are children of illegal immigrants in Florida, Georgia, Kansas, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, and Washington." - Cited to FAIR. By citing oneself or of "preaching to the choir" sites, it just obscures how the data was prepared, as the reader has to do more work to determine where the information came from. If there was a certain process, the publication should explain how the process what achieved in all of its original reports.

This is just a taste of what I feel about the report.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Are illegal aliens “indirectly” paying between $7,000 and $14,000 per year per child? I think not. Did you even bother to read the alarming report on the link provided? This is not an isolated issue. It’s a national travesty.

Illegals are now living in every state in this country, with a high percentage enrolling 2 or more children per household in our public schools. Consequently, they have created huge budget deficits, overcrowded schools, and have lowered the general standard of education. I’m sorry, but OUR children deserve better. They certainly shouldn’t suffer for the sake of children whose parents hold no allegiance to this country, and have no respect for our laws. Even if “some” are paying taxes, it is but a drop in the bucket compared to the costs incurred by U.S. taxpayers.

We didn’t have 20+ million illegals living in our country when Plyler v. Doe was presented to the Supreme Court. And, unlike now, we had a manageable number of illegal alien children attending our schools. Despite the solvency of select school districts, we, as a nation, can no longer afford to provide a tax-funded education and the myriad other benefits and services illegal aliens receive while living in our country in flagrant violation of our laws.

Again, I ask, why should U.S. taxpayers assume this unnecessary burden? Why do we have a moral obligation to foot the bill for untold millions who have no legal right to live in this country? We are being used and abused, and I, for one, am sick of it.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
 
4,317 posts, read 7,931,523 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I never leave home without legal ID. I have to drive everywhere I go so I always carry my drivers license anyway.
Folks who are stopped for a moving violation must give up there ID anyway. How is this an intrusion?
If you are arrested for a non-moving violation you must identify yourself. Once again how is this an intrusion?
Legal aliens with a perm resident card are required to carry it at all times. My wife was instructed to do so not once but 3 times during her final interview when she received the card.
Once again what is the intrusion?
But a driver's license in some cases is not proof of being here legally. Foreigners carry green cards and/or passports, but Americans do not usually carry those items. Americans do not usually carry social security cards.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,359 posts, read 14,233,175 times
Reputation: 10162
This is what is left of SB1070

The other 13 items:

  • Require the State to work with the Federal government in alien matters (which is as much an order to the Feds to cooperate with the State, as the Constitution already requires) (Sec. 2 - questionable to me)
  • allows citizens to sue authorities for not enforcing SB 1070 (Sec. 2G - state & local, not federal)
  • amends the crime of human smuggling (Sec. 4)
  • makes it a crime for day laborers, and people picking them up, if it impedes traffic (no more street corners) (Sec. 5A, 5B)
  • amends the crime of knowing employment of unauthorized aliens (Sec. 6)
  • amends the crime of intentional employment of unauthorized aliens (Sec. 7)
  • amends the requirement for checking employment eligibility (Sec. 8)
  • creates the gang and immigration intelligence team enforcement mission funds (cash to look for and prosecute illegal aliens) (Sec. 10)
  • administering SB 1070 creates a separate crime for a convicted criminal to engage in transporting or harboring illegal aliens,
  • amended the provisions to impound or remove vehicles used in transporting illegal aliens (Sec. 9.A.4)
Arizona's Immigration Law: Stronger Than Ever
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:27 PM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,981,349 times
Reputation: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Just curious - I don't know the history here but...

how is it a theft when you say the land was bought by means of a treaty?
The treaty was forced on Mexico after the US invaded Mexico and captured Mexico City. What option did Mexico have with US forces occupying their country and capital city?
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:31 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 994,018 times
Reputation: 369
<<We all seem to get more cynical about the less fortunate as we get older. That's just how it is.>>

When you pay into Social Security for years, then see that the illegal alien, who's never worked a day in this country, but has 4-5 citizen children, is getting 3 times the amount in welfare, you do tend to get cynical.

When the Medicare deductible keeps going up, but the illegal alien with citizen children pays nothing toward Medicaid, you tend to get cynical.

When you're trying to decide whether to buy food or medication with the last few remaining dollars from your SS check, and the children of illegal aliens are getting free breakfast and lunch at school, you tend to get cynical.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:39 PM
 
4,317 posts, read 7,931,523 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
When you're trying to decide whether to buy food or medication with the last few remaining dollars from your SS check, and the children of illegal aliens are getting free breakfast and lunch at school, you tend to get cynical.
But the illegal immigrant daddy's not getting free lunch. And if your example American had kids, they would be getting free lunch. So the playing field is level in that way.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,359 posts, read 14,233,175 times
Reputation: 10162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
The treaty was forced on Mexico after the US invaded Mexico and captured Mexico City. What option did Mexico have with US forces occupying their country and capital city?
OK - I just read some of this - Mexico got $15 million. We could have taken over Mexico City since we were there, but we didn't. We didn't have to give them any money.

What other country gives monetary help after defeating them?

By the way - Texas did the heavy lifting 9-10 years in advance in establishing the border before being annexed by the U.S.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
4,636 posts, read 4,966,016 times
Reputation: 2741
What happened that Mexico became such a hell hole ? I don't recall all of this condemnation back in the 1960's. Mexico was Mexico, and my image was one of a country that had a lot going for it. did I miss something ? (drugs, and corruption aside)
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