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Old 07-30-2010, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
In that case I'll state my personal opinion: By providing education services to a child of an illegal immigrant, this is the potential:
* He or she has the potential to have allegiance to the country as he or she was socialized in our culture and taught the values of American culture and the duties of citizenship
* He or she may get a scholarship for higher education (or work a job to get money to pay for school, or both) and proceed to at minimum become a well-respected contributing worker, paying taxes that make up for whatever was spent by the state(s) and the federal government to educate him or her from K to 12 - If the child becomes successful he or she could introduce a new business or scientific concept and enrich the country's knowledge base (political, scientific, etc.) - Historically the country has gained intellectual strength from immigrants and children of immigrants - The children likely will have little motivation to live and work in their parents' countries.
* When children are in the USA, the family (or the branch of the family that remains in the USA) becomes assimilated as the older immigrants die and as the second generation gives birth to the third
* By creating more assimilated Americans, the American citizen population growth rate will remain in the positive - Several European countries have had problems with negative growth rates.
* For the US citizen children, even if they live and work abroad, the US federal government still tries to tax them - Here is a taxation guide for US citizens living abroad: Publication 54 (2009), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad

Out of the, say, 3 million children who are sons and daughters of illegals in the United States who are attending K-12 schools, there is a good possibility that at least a few of them will make a lasting significant contribution to the fabric of this country.



It's a problem when the district is cutting special needs budgets, because those often need the money. I can live with admin positions being cut (oftentimes they can and should be cut). But there is a problem when special needs is cut. I understand that EPISD may have students who are residents of Mexico but may falsify addresses to attend EPISD schools. Because they don't contribute property tax money into the EPISD system, they should not be attending EPISD schools. If the students have grandmothers or aunts in the EPISD side, they should make the grandmothers' or aunts' households into their primary residences so they are considered to be "taxpayers" in the EPISD system. Or if they want to live in Mexico but attend EPISD, they should pay tuition.
There’s one problem: they have high dropout and teen pregnancy rates. Do we actually need more on our welfare rolls? In addition, illegal alien parents have shown a wanton disregard for our laws. They certainly hold no allegiance. How can they be good role models for their children? They have also been accommodated to such an extent that they have no sense of urgency for assimilation. They are here to get what they can. It’s that simple. We don’t need this burden.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,739,470 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I’m not interested in the state’s position. I asked for your opinion. Why do YOU believe we have an obligation to foot the bill for their education?
A recent CNN poll showed the 81% of Americans feel illegals that work and pay taxes, should be allowed to stay. I agree with that and that their children should be afforded an education.
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,138,677 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
A recent CNN poll showed the 81% of Americans feel illegals that work and pay taxes, should be allowed to stay. I agree with that and that their children should be afforded an education.
Actually it was revealed this morning in speaking with Robert Gibbs, the percentage was 62%. People just need to keep being informed and the percentage will continue to drop.
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:22 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,690,528 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
I am a citizen who was born here, I'm not required to carry something that says that I am legally able to be here. However, if you are an immigrant in this country, doesn't it make sense that you should carry something that shows that you are legally here. Also, who is asking immigrants to carry something that shows "proof of citizenship?" Who says an immigrant has to be a citizen just to be legally here?

I have to carry an ID with me and a driver's license as a citizen that is born in this country, why shouldn't an immigrant have to carry a valid and non-fake ID.
Actually, legal immigrants and visitors to this country have been required BY FEDERAL LAW to carry their green cards, passports, etc. since the Alien Registration Act was passed in 1940.....
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,739,470 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Actually it was revealed this morning in speaking with Robert Gibbs, the percentage was 62%. People just need to keep being informed and the percentage will continue to drop.
Link? CNN/Opinion Research poll hasn't been changed, that I can see, nor do I find anything about Gibbs saying anything about it. I could be wrong, but would like to see some actual source for the assertion.
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
A recent CNN poll showed the 81% of Americans feel illegals that work and pay taxes, should be allowed to stay. I agree with that and that their children should be afforded an education.
For illegals "work" can mean day labor jobs where work is very sporadic and income can be $4000 a year with food stamps, WIC, government housing, free medical care filling the gap and paying taxes means the occassional sales tax when buying non-food items.
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,739,470 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
For illegals "work" can mean day labor jobs where work is very sporadic and income can be $4000 a year with food stamps, WIC, government housing, free medical care filling the gap and paying taxes means the occassional sales tax when buying non-food items.
You could look it up, but here is the question and result from CNN/Opinion Research Corp.

"Creating a program that would allow illegal immigrants already living in the United States for a number of years to stay here and apply to legally remain in this country permanently if they had a job and paid back taxes"

Favor 81% oppose 19%
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:08 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
In that case I'll state my personal opinion: By providing education services to a child of an illegal immigrant, this is the potential:
* He or she has the potential to have allegiance to the country as he or she was socialized in our culture and taught the values of American culture and the duties of citizenship
* He or she may get a scholarship for higher education (or work a job to get money to pay for school, or both) and proceed to at minimum become a well-respected contributing worker, paying taxes that make up for whatever was spent by the state(s) and the federal government to educate him or her from K to 12 - If the child becomes successful he or she could introduce a new business or scientific concept and enrich the country's knowledge base (political, scientific, etc.) - Historically the country has gained intellectual strength from immigrants and children of immigrants - The children likely will have little motivation to live and work in their parents' countries.
* When children are in the USA, the family (or the branch of the family that remains in the USA) becomes assimilated as the older immigrants die and as the second generation gives birth to the third
* By creating more assimilated Americans, the American citizen population growth rate will remain in the positive - Several European countries have had problems with negative growth rates.
* For the US citizen children, even if they live and work abroad, the US federal government still tries to tax them - Here is a taxation guide for US citizens living abroad: Publication 54 (2009), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad

Out of the, say, 3 million children who are sons and daughters of illegals in the United States who are attending K-12 schools, there is a good possibility that at least a few of them will make a lasting significant contribution to the fabric of this country.



It's a problem when the district is cutting special needs budgets, because those often need the money. I can live with admin positions being cut (oftentimes they can and should be cut). But there is a problem when special needs is cut. I understand that EPISD may have students who are residents of Mexico but may falsify addresses to attend EPISD schools. Because they don't contribute property tax money into the EPISD system, they should not be attending EPISD schools. If the students have grandmothers or aunts in the EPISD side, they should make the grandmothers' or aunts' households into their primary residences so they are considered to be "taxpayers" in the EPISD system. Or if they want to live in Mexico but attend EPISD, they should pay tuition.
The fact that we provide an education for illegal aliens however is one of the magnets that draws them here in the first place. Also, the group here in the largest numbers illegally (Mexicans) have the largest drop out rates in school so it doesn't appear that they value an education anyway.
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:11 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
A recent CNN poll showed the 81% of Americans feel illegals that work and pay taxes, should be allowed to stay. I agree with that and that their children should be afforded an education.
Even though they have taken a job that should have gone to an American and violated our immigration laws to do so? Who do you think would be paying in those same taxes if they held the job that the illegal took? No, we should not be paying for the education of illegal aliens. We have our own students to provide an education for.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
A recent CNN poll showed the 81% of Americans feel illegals that work and pay taxes, should be allowed to stay. I agree with that and that their children should be afforded an education.
I find that VERY hard to believe. How many illegals were respondents? If you ever watch Washington Journal on CSPAN, or read the comments following any article pertaining to illegal immigration, there is overwhelming opposition to illegals remaining here. I also know for a fact DREAMies bombard online polls due to their desperation to have the DREAM Act passed.

We had the same results on City Data:

View Poll Results: Are You For Amnesty For The Illegals
yes 24 10.76%
no 184 82.51%
other 6 2.69%
not sure 9 4.04%
Voters: 223.

Are You For Amnesty For The Illegals
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