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Old 07-30-2010, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Dieudonne View Post
1) Social security numbers should remain as the backbone of hiring practices in America. If you're on a work visa, native born or naturalized (as we were taught in school) you have one of these. These can be tracked and monitored by computers. We're not living in 1800, when paper was used and exact numbers couldn't be figured. This is 2010, computers handle data effortlessly and precisely, quickly too. If we as a nation implement a new system of governing Jobs in America, using computers we can exactly know who is working where ( we already do that, that's how you pay into your Social Security), we can then see which companies are hiring people who are illegal. No profiling. Well maybe SSN profiling, but isn't that the problem? This is a slow process I'm sure, while the data is compiled, but it's only as slow as it's implemented.
This is already done, it's called E-verify. It not only checks the applicant's information with the Social Security Administration, but also with the Department of Homeland Security.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
This is already done, it's called E-verify. It not only checks the applicant's information with the Social Security Administration, but also with the Department of Homeland Security.
And when some's info sends up a flag it should be fowarded to ICE and the local police. An arrest should be made and person or persons investigated. Too bad that doesn't happen.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix,Arizona
3,707 posts, read 4,492,665 times
Reputation: 3604
I had an idea awhile back

After the Border is Secure...Would this work ?
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Old 07-31-2010, 01:08 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgirl27 View Post
The employer gets fined...there is a consequence for not following the law. Also the law isnt always right, some laws should be broken..
So if an employer knowingly hires an illegal and wants to deal with the law regarding it, then like I said I have no problem with it.
What other laws do you think should be broken? Is it alright for someone to steal from the till at MCDonalds if they need the money?

Is it alright for someone to break into your house or steal your car if they need it? Is it alright for someone to use your SS card so they can get a job? Is it alright for someone to drive without insurance and leave you holding the bag for the damages they cause?

I'm a smoker so you can guess there are some laws I don't like too. But guess what, I still have to follow them!
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
And when some's info sends up a flag it should be fowarded to ICE and the local police. An arrest should be made and person or persons investigated. Too bad that doesn't happen.
Unfortunately I don't think the resources are currently available to do that. To my understanding ICE won't even investigate allegations for 3-4 months after they're made because they are so backlogged. I'd be in favor of 90% of the troops being pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq and using some of that money and resources for domestic protection and security.
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Old 08-02-2010, 12:48 AM
 
4 posts, read 3,286 times
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Re: Gary, thanks for the input. I agree, there are serious flaws in our Social Security system. We have the ability now, to tighten up in these areas. A picture would help on the Social Security card or integrate it on a new Federal ID card. A card for every visitor on a work visa, native born or naturalized American citizen. I personally think DNA will be the last form of ID in America. Who knows, only time will tell. This DNA process is still intrusive (blood), except for the swab, but a national DNA data base would be a good idea. Can't fake your DNA, it's with you for life. Does any one know how fast a DNA check would take? I'd like to know.

Re: HtownLove, good one. Digital fingerprinting, honestly sounds like the way to go. At least for now. It's harmless and easy. Quick too. Two data bases, one for legal Americans and one for known illegal immigrants. Honestly the illegal immigrant list would be shorter than the American citizen list (lets hope. Wouldn't it be funny if it was the other way around). We could start with the known illegal immigrants that have been processed ( found guilty of this crime ). Do they finger print those individuals processed for Illegal Immigration? I'm curious.
A border officer, at the border could physically check hands for alterations before, or as it's placed on a hand scanner, before anyone is allowed to pass. Drive through and walk through. Airports and seaports. This data base should be governed and ran by the military. I'll touch on that idea later.

Re: Jeepgirl, Thanks for the insight, I'm just curious. Were you serious about not caring about the laws pertaining to this illegal immigration problem? Really contemplate the whole picture. The legality, morality and ethical aspects of how important this problem is. Not only in America but in other countries around this great big beautiful world we live in. Maybe you don't mind the lack of jobs for Americans( jobs occupied by illegal immigrants), or the low pay in some cases( pay illegal immigrants are willing to receive, because it's much higher than back home), I don't know. Could you clarify this, so we can constructively move forward with this discussion. I 'd love your input.
Those really aren't the point anyway, those are the result of certain people not following the laws. The point is, we live in America, a land of laws which protect the peoples rights, not a lawless country where you do what you like. Hiring illegal immigrants usually breeds animosity, economical instability and eventually, the thinking that "If he/she got rich using illegal labor, I might as well do it too". This is not a fair business practice, and not fair to anyone. It's like cutting in line.

Re: Slig, Hello. If we pull out, pull out all the way. You either have to commit to it, or not. I served 8 yrs in our Military, Honorable discharge, and still know very little about what really goes on. That's the nature of the beast. There is a hierarchy in place. I personally agree. I feel that the $600 billion a year (old estimate) could be used for more constructive things "IN" America.

I've thought about this for a long time, and talking about it would bring us a long way around until we come full circle(back to the illegal immigration point).

1) America should turn the first 2-5 miles of our shores and borders into military property. All airspace, and land routes in and out of this country would be monitored and protected by the military, seaports and airports as well. Pull our troops back to work this military border. No troops abroad getting killed, no other countries hating us because we are killing their people.
This would actually be a job boom, building new bases getting rid of some we wouldn't need then, hiring more people to monitor this large border effectively. There is the other aspect of unprotected commerce abroad, and debts owed by America to those countries. I'll get to that later.(another thread)

I'd like to hear the numbers on how much is owed to whom for what, in the name of international trade, anybody have those? Just food for thought. Do we really need these trade items to survive?

2) One thing I would like to see is an open ballot added to the election process. In the early days of America, we needed Representatives to speak for us. They would represent small communities, which back then worked fine. Not too much corruption. If a representative lied about what the people wanted, and put his own wants in the mix, the word traveled fast (small population). We are a much larger country now and it seems like the people aren't being properly represented( especially when lobbyist and 2000 page documents are put in play).
We, as the average Joe or Jane, are much too busy working and living our lives, to reflect on, or have the chance to read the whole document(s) being voted on. Seems there's a failure to be accountable for what is being said behind closed doors by lobbyist or at lunch between fellow representatives.
The heavy burden placed on our state representatives could be lessened (and doubts that our voices aren't being heard) if we were allowed to personally write in our wants/needs on the ballot. Environment, Trade, Economy, Laws, Procedural, etc... ( open to suggestions) A computer could quickly and efficiently(without losing ballots) categorize and give a % reading of what and how many are for or against the direction this country is heading. As a people.51% wins 49 %loses, till next election. This way politicians get it straight from the horses mouth.
You would take home a copy of your ballot at the time or your voting,and a copy would be sent to you in the mail along with poll results( short and sweet), so there would be a level of accountability, knowing that your voice was really heard. Cuts down on possible corruption( don't shoot me, I don't mean to imply that our government lies to us, you each know how you feel about this one). I'm just saying, it eliminates the possibility of such a thing happening.

3) Teach basic law in school and more on politics, global economy, ecology, religious tolerance,
ethics(business and personal). History hasn't taught man to not make the same mistakes, we still do them( after learning them in class year after year).
I would have rather learned law, so when I went out into the world I'd know my rights before they were abused or taken away because I didn't know I had them, or until they were challenged.

Now that I've talked a little about government, back to the point. We are a free people, free to choose and dictate our own destiny in America. That's what's great about America. It seems the politicians weren't the one's complaining about this illegal immigration problem, we were. They are now, just mirroring our concerns. They have allowed this problem to fester by lack of action in the appropriate places. Places they SHOULD, and DO have control over.

All of this won't work unless we tighten down on this illegal immigration problem. Only Americans should vote on the course of the American future. I know if thousands of Americans decided to walk over the border into Canada or Mexico, They wouldn't be welcomed with open arms. It just doesn't work that way. So why are we expected to allow it?
Maybe, just for a little while, we should remove the plaque on the statue of liberty " bring me your poor, your ....." and just refuse any entry into this country unless you are a true American Citizen. Stabilize the situation and move on from there. I wish I knew the answer. But isn't that what this is all for? A sharing of ideas, in hopes that we can effect a positive change in America? I have friends from all origins on this globe, great people. Like I said that isn't the issue, being here illegally is.

Maybe if we perfect democracy at home, other countries would see the truth of how it really works and follow suit, then it would be just as nice over there as it is over here and no more illegal immigration. No need to come over here to get better pay or lifestyle, when they have it at home too. We could reopen our borders and all would be fair, and probably better managed by then? Love to hear more from you all.

Sorry this was so long, you should hear me talk. Your ears would be burning by now, ask my wife she'll tell ya. She's a gem.

Aloha
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:38 PM
 
Location: very new to Ossining NY
221 posts, read 317,174 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Dieudonne View Post
I had a thought about how America should view immigration and how it is regulated. It seems that Americans complain about the effect of illegal immigration on job availability and wages. I agree, it's a serious problem.

1) Social security numbers should remain as the backbone of hiring practices in America. If you're on a work visa, native born or naturalized (as we were taught in school) you have one of these. These can be tracked and monitored by computers. We're not living in 1800, when paper was used and exact numbers couldn't be figured. This is 2010, computers handle data effortlessly and precisely, quickly too. If we as a nation implement a new system of governing Jobs in America, using computers we can exactly know who is working where ( we already do that, that's how you pay into your Social Security), we can then see which companies are hiring people who are illegal. No profiling. Well maybe SSN profiling, but isn't that the problem? This is a slow process I'm sure, while the data is compiled, but it's only as slow as it's implemented.


2) A firm stance should be taken by all states and backed by the federal government, as to keeping this illegal immigration from happening any more. The federal government should not threaten but state plainly as fact (Law), that if you are caught employing any illegal immigrants, you will lose your company, your assets and your freedom for ten years, no leniency. If your not hiring illegals you have nothing to fear. The government should take control of these wrongfully built up businesses and employ Americans to continue running these. I'm sure that after the first few people are arrested for breaking this (Law), the seriousness of this would be seen, and I would almost bet (not a betting person myself) that illegal immigrant hiring would be a thing of our nations nasty past.

Imagine Jobs in America for Americans, how nice would that be? Maybe a fund should be made to smooth the transition of some of these problem areas affected by the reliance on illegal workers as a profit builder.
Maybe putting a cap on price and pay, for a short while, would help to keep numbers easily manageable while working this kink out of our economical situation. I don't know, I'm no expert. Just a concerned Citizen
like most of you (especially if you're reading this all the way to this point). Then again maybe that last idea is too much, I don't know.

I need to watch more of how Arizona is handling the illegal immigration situation. From what I've seen so far, (to me) it looks like racial profiling. How else are they doing this? They deny it, but haven't clearly stated their process to help us, as Americans feel comfortable with it.

If you have a valid SSN you should be able to work in America. I know a lot of companies will fail because they honestly rely on the low pay out to support their profit. If you've been doing this, making a profit at the cost of Americans losing potential jobs and income, to lower paid illegals, your business should collapse. This is not what America is all about. We as a proud nation should support each other. If we allow this illegal practice to continue we all pay the price.

Your comments are greatly needed, and welcome. I look forward to chewing the fat with you all.
I used to want immigration reform. I'm not so sure I do anymore, esp after reading some of the comments on this website. They are chilling. If one more serious economic crisis happens, maybe illegal immigrants, or anyone fitting the stereotype of an "illegal" will be targeted as the reason for all of the USA's ills; I've been doing some reading, watching documentaries abt how the Nazis went from a party very few took seriously in Germany, and in less than 5 years had complete power.

1) The majority of German people started to want their government to do something about their problems and stop trendmilling on rhetoric. They wanted order and action. The Nazis provided that, very swiftly and effectively.

2) Three waves of serious economic crises put the German people in a state of desperation and panic, looking for easy answers and scapegoats. We've had one serious crisis, and a few economists are predicting another one, as serious, or worse. (The same economists that predicted the first,that weren't listened to before and were seen as crackpots.) What will the mood of the US public be after another crisis of =/worse magnitude? And possibly a third? Many are already scapegoating Hispanics for taking jobs. The only jobs I see they have as a majority are jobs most US adults wouldn't want for very long, mowing lawns, recycling, collecting garbage, the lowest of all.

3) The final step was to start gathering suspected "illegals", Jews (officially stripped of their German citizenship - (sound familiar? strip children of illegals of their citizenship), anyone who even mildly criticized the German "Saviors"( the Nazis), the disabled or mentally retarded (people who were a drain on social budgets, one guy on this website wants to give IQ tests to "illegals"), and eventually those who tried to help the disenfranchized. We all know the atrocities that followed.

It could happen in America. The Germans were civilized by Western/Christian values, in fact some of the most fanatical were strong believers in the superiority of WASP ideas. Do we REALLY want to start down the same road??
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:26 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbugster View Post
I used to want immigration reform. I'm not so sure I do anymore, esp after reading some of the comments on this website. They are chilling. If one more serious economic crisis happens, maybe illegal immigrants, or anyone fitting the stereotype of an "illegal" will be targeted as the reason for all of the USA's ills; I've been doing some reading, watching documentaries abt how the Nazis went from a party very few took seriously in Germany, and in less than 5 years had complete power.

1) The majority of German people started to want their government to do something about their problems and stop trendmilling on rhetoric. They wanted order and action. The Nazis provided that, very swiftly and effectively.

2) Three waves of serious economic crises put the German people in a state of desperation and panic, looking for easy answers and scapegoats. We've had one serious crisis, and a few economists are predicting another one, as serious, or worse. (The same economists that predicted the first,that weren't listened to before and were seen as crackpots.) What will the mood of the US public be after another crisis of =/worse magnitude? And possibly a third? Many are already scapegoating Hispanics for taking jobs. The only jobs I see they have as a majority are jobs most US adults wouldn't want for very long, mowing lawns, recycling, collecting garbage, the lowest of all.

3) The final step was to start gathering suspected "illegals", Jews (officially stripped of their German citizenship - (sound familiar? strip children of illegals of their citizenship), anyone who even mildly criticized the German "Saviors"( the Nazis), the disabled or mentally retarded (people who were a drain on social budgets, one guy on this website wants to give IQ tests to "illegals"), and eventually those who tried to help the disenfranchized. We all know the atrocities that followed.

It could happen in America. The Germans were civilized by Western/Christian values, in fact some of the most fanatical were strong believers in the superiority of WASP ideas. Do we REALLY want to start down the same road??
I am sick of hearing that these illegals are only doing jobs that Americans won't do. That simply isn't true! I am also sick of hearing Nazism attached to our right to enforce our immigration laws. Illegal immigration was a problem well before we had this economic crisis. When probably 20 million illegals have managed to slip through our borders in the past few decades that is a problem with or without any ecnomic crisis. They aren't all here looking for work either. Some are criminals and possible terrorists. What is wrong with people who don't give a damn about securing our borders and not demanding that immigrants only come here legally? What is wrong with people who don't give a damn about the uncontrolled population growth we are experiencing thru illegal immigration? What is wrong with people who don't give a damn about the social and tax burden these illegals are placing on our citizenry and the increase in crime?
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:48 AM
 
4 posts, read 3,286 times
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Before I start, let me say this. We all know illegal immigration is a problem in our country. What it effects are just side issues. So we're not learning anything new by discussing these things. Sometimes I feel we're just spinning our wheels here. But discussion is good, as long as we stay away from saying or taking anything personal.

I too feel that anyone illegally should not be here, but we can't seem to come up with a fix all for this, at least not without starting an international or national crisis.
Bear with me...

Maybe we should strictly enforce a temporary tightening of our "borders".(just a thought) Use our standing Border Patrol, Military and Coast Guard, to physically monitor our borders, sea, airports and coasts. They are better suited for this role anyway. BEFORE this temporary tightening, the Federal government should Implement a new ID system.

Please be patient... Don't let this next part scare you off, I need your input.

It's a lot easier to try this than to start shipping people out of this country.
With the current laws in place, we have to almost resign ourselves to the fact that, whoever is here, legal or not, is an American citizen. Chances are, someone here illegally has already had a baby born here, or on the way, just to gain legal citizenship for themselves (it's how our laws work right now). So maybe we can't reverse this, but we can stop it and tighten up on how people come and go.

Time should be taken to record every American citizen and implement a new Federal ID for those people. I think the government should use a computerized system combined with a new Federal ID. Make this a very secure and reliable system. My favorite ID is "DNA", maybe Retina Scan, some way non intrusive, like a laser reading the blood in your eye? Or a multiple physical database, for some of us with eyes missing. (Wouldn't want to lose my eyes in a freak accident and have to leave the country because the computer doesn't recognize me).
If the Federal government can keep us out of the federal reserve and military stuff, they can do this too. Not an internet based system, a government run and only accessible system. Maybe spend more money on figuring out how to secure this database from hackers, than warring with other nations???

The stigma of being illegal should be dropped, so everyone would come out and contribute to this.
(help me on this one)
The question is, how to supply citizens with ID's who are boating for fun or fishing our waters, or traveling out of the country, in the interim. These should be the first, do it right there, by military authorities, before they leave the ports or shores. Let all citizens know, before even closing the borders, that a new ID system is being implemented. Before going out to boat or travel this ID needs to be done, or you risk not being allowed back in without a thorough check of legal citizenship.
When everything closes, they can come back with their ID. No stopping of traveling or business out or in. Any people conducting business, coming in as the borders are closing, should be documented then and there.

As for the ongoing border issue, I feel our military is still our best defense, long term.
Our borders could then be secure and hopefully, problem solved.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:42 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Dieudonne View Post
Before I start, let me say this. We all know illegal immigration is a problem in our country. What it effects are just side issues. So we're not learning anything new by discussing these things. Sometimes I feel we're just spinning our wheels here. But discussion is good, as long as we stay away from saying or taking anything personal.

I too feel that anyone illegally should not be here, but we can't seem to come up with a fix all for this, at least not without starting an international or national crisis.
Bear with me...

Maybe we should strictly enforce a temporary tightening of our "borders".(just a thought) Use our standing Border Patrol, Military and Coast Guard, to physically monitor our borders, sea, airports and coasts. They are better suited for this role anyway. BEFORE this temporary tightening, the Federal government should Implement a new ID system.

Please be patient... Don't let this next part scare you off, I need your input.

It's a lot easier to try this than to start shipping people out of this country.
With the current laws in place, we have to almost resign ourselves to the fact that, whoever is here, legal or not, is an American citizen. Chances are, someone here illegally has already had a baby born here, or on the way, just to gain legal citizenship for themselves (it's how our laws work right now). So maybe we can't reverse this, but we can stop it and tighten up on how people come and go.

Time should be taken to record every American citizen and implement a new Federal ID for those people. I think the government should use a computerized system combined with a new Federal ID. Make this a very secure and reliable system. My favorite ID is "DNA", maybe Retina Scan, some way non intrusive, like a laser reading the blood in your eye? Or a multiple physical database, for some of us with eyes missing. (Wouldn't want to lose my eyes in a freak accident and have to leave the country because the computer doesn't recognize me).
If the Federal government can keep us out of the federal reserve and military stuff, they can do this too. Not an internet based system, a government run and only accessible system. Maybe spend more money on figuring out how to secure this database from hackers, than warring with other nations???

The stigma of being illegal should be dropped, so everyone would come out and contribute to this.
(help me on this one)
The question is, how to supply citizens with ID's who are boating for fun or fishing our waters, or traveling out of the country, in the interim. These should be the first, do it right there, by military authorities, before they leave the ports or shores. Let all citizens know, before even closing the borders, that a new ID system is being implemented. Before going out to boat or travel this ID needs to be done, or you risk not being allowed back in without a thorough check of legal citizenship.
When everything closes, they can come back with their ID. No stopping of traveling or business out or in. Any people conducting business, coming in as the borders are closing, should be documented then and there.

As for the ongoing border issue, I feel our military is still our best defense, long term.
Our borders could then be secure and hopefully, problem solved.
I see, so nobody is illegal and illegals are citizens just because they had a kid on our soil even though they don't have any citizenship papers. You are advocating amnesty also....forget it!
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