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Old 07-31-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 27,326,748 times
Reputation: 7567

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LOL, I didn't say that the majority wasn't from there, I am just saying that they are not the only ones
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: very new to Ossining NY
221 posts, read 318,060 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So, you all think that the Governments of Mexico and Guatemala have no blame in any of this? Seriously?

Wow


I remember another situation where people were spitting on soldiers coming back from Nam. It wasn't the Soldiers fault but people demonized them anyway.
Excuse me, do you read?? Look carefully at the poster SoEdible's comment. Sheeeeeeeeeesh. Maybe you just want to stew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
There is plenty of blame to go around and the employer of illegals certainly is to blame. Most know full well they are breaking the law but their greed gets the best of them so they willingly break the law but almost all illegals are also aware that they are breaking the laws so they don't get a pass.

It's like a bank embezzler trying to blame the bank for allowing him access to money to steal even though the embezzler knew full well it was a crime to take the money. Or burglars trying to blame home owners for not securing their house well enough forcing them to break and enter and rob it.
Do you have children?? Have you ever seen the way most people live in Mexico? If you had hungry children and you knew jobs were North, would you be thinking,"Hmm, I really need a job to feed and cloth my crying children, but it would be criminal to cross illegally into the US. Yes, I guess I'll do the right thing and let my children suffer." I don't have children of my own, but I am very close to my little niece, and if she desperately needed something, I'd beg, steal, prostitute my old bones, cross the border into Canada, do about anything to get it for her. These arguments about the Hispanic, or any other illegal immigrant, not breaking the law are really academic and not very realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenScoutII View Post
Yep, this ^^^.

Well said!

If we really want to address illegal immigration in the US we have to address the companies/individuals hiring them. This is the part of the equation that never gets a whole lot of attention in the media.
Add my ^^^^ to yours, and the media only seems to report on something after the fact these days. If the federal government ever gets free from the lobbyists and starts to be a government of the people, they will go after those companies and the companies will either have to abide my US labor laws or bite the dust. Then the media will report it. We no longer have a truly free and objective media; they are also controlled by special interests, the PC phrase for large corporations.

Last edited by Yac; 08-02-2010 at 06:51 AM.. Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:29 PM
 
509 posts, read 610,563 times
Reputation: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Now we have heard a lot of excuses, seen a lot of finger pointing. But whose fault is it really?
Lets keep this thread clean and free of the childish antics.
Some disqualifiers:
1. We stole the land from Mexico.
2. They come here to have anchor babies.
3. They do jobs Americans won't do.
4. They are here for the welfare.
None of these excuses are valid because the last 3 are not the root problem.
In my opinion the fault is entirely on the shoulders of the Federal Government.
They have failed to recognize and take action for far too long.
I agree for the most part...
1- Is definately not valid. That was in the 1830's and the land was not really Mexican. The majority in the S.West at that time were Native American tribes. The Mexican population was puny and largely non-existant [between 5,000 - 10,000 mexicans in the S.west in the 1830s].

Also, none of the infrastructure in the west today was there when we annexed it [obviosly]. Hoover dam ? Nope. LA ? Nope [it required the hoover dam to be built for water, without water - population less than 1000]. Las Vegas, the interstate, railroads ?? Nope, wasnt there. So the whole argument that the land was stolen has little value, its just a way to shutup conversation about illegal immigration.

2- Anchor baby needs to be changed, it is abused.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The fed knew the problem existed and was getting worse by the day and yet failed to act.
What could they have done?
1. Secure the border and minimize the any further intrusion.
2. Enforced our labor laws. In other words slap companies that violate these laws with fines that actually hurt. Include jail time for any repeat offenders, or big offenders.
3. Enforce our immigration laws. Deport the violators. Border is secure and they can not return.
4. Pass laws that go after the facilitaors. This includes the greedy landlords, the relatives that provide shelter and of course churches who provide a sanctuary.
Now lets keep this thread clean.

I think jail time for those who knowingly hire illegals would go along way to fix the issue. It wont fix the issue alone but it would be a very strong deterrent. And I know for a fact that most illegals are hired knowingly, I worked in construction and every boss knew they had illegals in they're crew.

Find the people hiring them and slap them in jail for a few years.

As for enforcing the border that would help of course, but im not holding my breath for that one . I think the Government has made it very clear which side of the issue they stand on, and that is on the side of the illegals. So considering that, the immigration issue is deeper than just 'legal or illegal', its one of corruption in the government from the top down and one of $$$ via payoffs from lobbyists [ie- more corruption].
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:24 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,592,401 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So, you all think that the Governments of Mexico and Guatemala have no blame in any of this? Seriously?

Wow


I remember another situation where people were spitting on soldiers coming back from Nam. It wasn't the Soldiers fault but people demonized them anyway.
Uh ... if you read my post, I did mention that.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,933 posts, read 30,188,716 times
Reputation: 17748
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbugster View Post
Do you have children?? Have you ever seen the way most people live in Mexico? If you had hungry children and you knew jobs were North, would you be thinking,"Hmm, I really need a job to feed and cloth my crying children, but it would be criminal to cross illegally into the US. Yes, I guess I'll do the right thing and let my children suffer." I don't have children of my own, but I am very close to my little niece, and if she desperately needed something, I'd beg, steal, prostitute my old bones, cross the border into Canada, do about anything to get it for her. These arguments about the Hispanic, or any other illegal immigrant, not breaking the law are really academic and not very realistic.
Oh the poor children Only idiots have children they cannot feed. I wouldn't have a bunch of kids then expect someone else pay to raise them. That's called parasitic behavior. To top that off it's pretty obvious they are gaming the system by spacing out their anchors so the Govt free service gravy train continues.

Please show me where these "jobs" are you mention?

Hey, if you want to adopt some Illegal's child have at it but leave the rest of us out of it.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,933 posts, read 30,188,716 times
Reputation: 17748
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
I agree for the most part...
1- Is definately not valid. That was in the 1830's and the land was not really Mexican. The majority in the S.West at that time were Native American tribes. The Mexican population was puny and largely non-existant [between 5,000 - 10,000 mexicans in the S.west in the 1830s].

Also, none of the infrastructure in the west today was there when we annexed it [obviosly]. Hoover dam ? Nope. LA ? Nope [it required the hoover dam to be built for water, without water - population less than 1000]. Las Vegas, the interstate, railroads ?? Nope, wasnt there. So the whole argument that the land was stolen has little value, its just a way to shutup conversation about illegal immigration.

2- Anchor baby needs to be changed, it is abused.





I think jail time for those who knowingly hire illegals would go along way to fix the issue. It wont fix the issue alone but it would be a very strong deterrent. And I know for a fact that most illegals are hired knowingly, I worked in construction and every boss knew they had illegals in they're crew.

Find the people hiring them and slap them in jail for a few years.

As for enforcing the border that would help of course, but im not holding my breath for that one . I think the Government has made it very clear which side of the issue they stand on, and that is on the side of the illegals. So considering that, the immigration issue is deeper than just 'legal or illegal', its one of corruption in the government from the top down and one of $$$ via payoffs from lobbyists [ie- more corruption].

I agree, especially #2. Even when there are no jobs the magnet of free Govt services through their children is more than enough to keep them coming. They have nothing, even a few hundred a month is better than nothing.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:48 PM
 
Location: DFW
2,262 posts, read 2,698,311 times
Reputation: 1288
Many people are to blame for illegal immigration throughout history on both the left and the right. There is much more sympathy for illegal aliens on the liberal side today.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,933 posts, read 30,188,716 times
Reputation: 17748
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Uh ... if you read my post, I did mention that.
I do apologize as I did. But nutz to the pro-criminal with the nasty response.

No soup for him.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:15 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbugster View Post
Do you have children?? Have you ever seen the way most people live in Mexico? If you had hungry children and you knew jobs were North, would you be thinking,"Hmm, I really need a job to feed and cloth my crying children, but it would be criminal to cross illegally into the US. Yes, I guess I'll do the right thing and let my children suffer." I don't have children of my own, but I am very close to my little niece, and if she desperately needed something, I'd beg, steal, prostitute my old bones, cross the border into Canada, do about anything to get it for her. These arguments about the Hispanic, or any other illegal immigrant, not breaking the law are really academic and not very realistic.
Yes and I support them myself without breaking any laws, I don't sneak into other countries and have more children so I can get food stamps and WIC and then sneak those first children in by paying human traffickers and exposing my children to much danger.

Nothing stops someone in Mexico from holding off on having children until they can finish an education and find a better job and be able to support their children before they start pumping them out.

Americans like middle class people anywhere tend to finish school and wait to start families. And they tend to limit family size.

There are people in Mexico who do the same - and they are also middle class so whose fault is it if some Mexicans decide to start having children when they can't afford them and keep having them?

Americans are to give up our country because people from other cultures lack all responsibility and self control?

Sorry but there are those of us who don't want to make the USA the flophouse of the whole world.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:25 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbugster View Post
Have you ever seen the way most people live in Mexico? If you had hungry children and you knew jobs were North....
Yes I have been to Mexico and Mexico is realy a beautiful and rich nation filled with vast natural resourses. And no - people in Mexico are not starving to death, they do not live in a hell hole.

And Mexico has a growing middle class while ours is shrinking fast, Mexico has far less unemployment - under 5% while the USA suffers double digit unemployment. What Mexico lacks are the government programs that make it possible for someone to live like a king without worrying about work.

Children in Mexico are not going without food to eat - that's a complete lie. In fact Mexico's childhood obesity rates are second only to the USA. They eat a little too well - just like we in the USA do.
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