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Old 08-11-2010, 02:13 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
Reputation: 15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Ronald Reagan started this mess. (Sorry Republicans). They were 5% of the population when he offered amnesty in the 1980s.

Politicians have refused to clean up the mess because pro business Republicans like cheap labor and Democrats see a potential voter base.
Thanks Censusdata. I wonder what the rationale for amnesty was. I mean, I know that the US gave amnesty to all and any Cubans that managed to touch US soil, which is why Miami is primarily inhabited by Cuban emigres and their families. The rationale there was that Cubans were fleeing a communist country. Cubans are not part of the illegal immigrant problem. Nor are Nicaraguans who also fled communism and are in this country in small numbers compared to Mexicans and Asians. That was not the case with Mexico, which has never been ruled by Communism. I don't see how Mexican immigrants would qualify for amnesty status. Poverty alone has never been a reason to let masses come in. I'm shocked to learn Reagan took part on this.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:29 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Historically, Mexico has been ruled by the Spanish elite who don't give a rat's behind about their citizens and creating an economy so their people will remain there. Is that historical enough for you? There lays your "root cause" and it isn't our problem nor is it up to us to fix it by allowing their citizens to jump our borders illegally.
Who is suggesting you or us should "fix Mexico's corruption problem"? I never suggested you go to Mexico and became a government official there. Although our government does have a penchant for trying to fix others problems, or doesn't it? E.g., Irak, Afghanistan, etc.

Your response makes no sense in that if Mexico has always had a bad, elitist government, from the time of its independence, then how come the massive influx of Mexicans started in the 80s and not earlier? For the hundredth time, there used to be peaceful border crossing in the 40s, 50s and 60s. I don't believe Mexico had a non-corrupt government then, or did it? Well, no, according to your argument about the Spanish elite.

If you figure out what a problem's root-cause is, you can PREVENT it from affecting you. If bad amnesty policy led to the situation we're in, then we need to learn what made our American leaders pass it in the first place, so that future governments don't do the same. So, no, your answer is not "historically enough" for me or anyone. Please don't respond for the sake of saying whatever and don't imply I am telling people to go "fix someone else's problems." That is simply ludicrous. I thank those posters who are actually referring to specific policies (e.g., Reagan's administration) and regulations (e.g.,Bracero law). I finally feel we're getting somewhere!

Last edited by Catessa; 08-11-2010 at 02:32 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
Who is suggesting you or us should "fix Mexico's corruption problem"? I never suggested you go to Mexico and became a government official there. Although our government does have a penchant for trying to fix others problems, or doesn't it? E.g., Irak, Afghanistan, etc.

Your response makes no sense in that if Mexico has always had a bad, elitist government, from the time of its independence, then how come the massive influx of Mexicans started in the 80s and not earlier? For the hundredth time, there used to be peaceful border crossing in the 40s, 50s and 60s. I don't believe Mexico had a non-corrupt government then, or did it? Well, no, according to your argument about the Spanish elite.

If you figure out what a problem's root-cause is, you can PREVENT it from affecting you. If bad amnesty policy led to the situation we're in, then we need to learn what made our American leaders pass it in the first place, so that future governments don't do the same. So, no, your answer is not "historically enough" for me or anyone. Please don't respond for the sake of saying whatever and don't imply I am telling people to go "fix someone else's problems." That is simply ludicrous. I thank those posters who are actually referring to specific policies (e.g., Reagan's administration) and regulations (e.g.,Bracero law). I finally feel we're getting somewhere!
Illegal immigation started when immigration started. The reason everything was so quiet decades ago is because first, there wasn't any immigration laws, secound, there was very little public information.
Today with computers, information can be on all 4 sides of the country before it hit's the airways.
With more people aware of the illegal immigration issue, the bigger the demand to enforce the laws on the books.
To resolve the issue,before anything, the border must be secured to stop the influx.

Like a broken Dam, in order repair a boken dam, the flow of water must be stopped first.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
tinman01
Who said they are?? I think so many people in this forum are enraged over the issue and that rage does not allow them to READ what others are expressing. When did I say it's OK for people to break the law and come illegally? Hmmm, can't find that anywhere on my postings.

I think the process you propose would be comprehensive enough to weed out the bad elements from coming to the country and shouldn't be too hard to implement. I still disagree that HS students want to work cleaning. At least not the ones I know, who want to spend time shopping at the mall, traveling to Europe, or practicing other hobby. But if you still think the illegals are to be blamed, then you should blame the employers who HIRE them. The illegals don't hire themselves or pay themselves under the table. A good ol' American is happily doing that. Why not go after him/her?

In regards to abuse, which does happen, I disagree that anyone guilty of committing a crime should be abused. Immigrants who get abused BECOME victims and so does a petty burglar who gets raped in jail by a pedophile. Since when two wrongs make one right? To say that illegals should not be in the country is a valid statement. To say they should be denigrated and abused because they came to a country seeking a better life where AMERICAN EMPLOYERS hire them is just ludicrous. A good system will be one that will not permit illegal entry, but also one that guards human rights. Gotta have both.
In red:
No one said that they or anyone else should be abused. I said that criminals abuse each other. That when opts to become a criminal opt for what comes with that life style. Listen I don't hang with criminals, I don't intensionally break laws. Why because I enjoy the moral high ground.
They come to this country illegally. Honest people obey the law even when they may not agree with said laws. Our system does not allow for illegal entry. Do you lock your doors at night? I do but once in a while I forget. So does this make it my fault when someone enters univited? No it is the fault of the intruder. Is it my fault that some pawnshops will buy stolen goods? Do we now blame the pawn shops who buy stolen goods because my house was broken into? No I blame the original criminal who entered my house.
Human rights. They are guarded. Unfortunately no system is fool proof. The illegals by their very own choices put themselves in a box. This allows the abusers to succeed. Call the police and report the abuse? Face the risk of deportation. Accept the abuse and lower the risk of deportation.
Tough choices. All lead back to their original choice to ignore the laws.
Do I feel bad when a criminal is raped in prison? Normally not because all individuals involved opted to live outside of civilized society. Do I feel it is acceptable for such things to happen? NO because I don't believe in rape for any reason. That said I also feel as ye sow so shall ye reap.
The blue:
Well where I live H.S kids work in pizza parlors, and resturants, work for landscapers in the summer cutting grass etc. I live in farm country there is no shortage of work ethic among kids here.
You seek to make excuses for illegals. Reminds me of TV comercials in the 1970's. Don't let a good kid go bad. Lock your doors.
Well a good kid wouldn't enter your home , your car, or steal from you. But a bad kid sure will and a locked door doesn't change this fact. But those old comercials tried to transfer blame to society. Illegals made the choice to be criminals. They own the R for what follows such a choice.
The procedures that I propose? Those are the reality already...
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Ronald Reagan started this mess. (Sorry Republicans). They were 5% of the population when he offered amnesty in the 1980s.

Politicians have refused to clean up the mess because pro business Republicans like cheap labor and Democrats see a potential voter base.
Please please another partisan post.
Please educate us all. What have the democrats in since 2007 tried to do about illegal immigration? Oh yeah they also support an amnesty program.
Pot calling kettle black.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:05 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
In red:
No one said that they or anyone else should be abused. I said that criminals abuse each other. That when opts to become a criminal opt for what comes with that life style. Listen I don't hang with criminals, I don't intensionally break laws. Why because I enjoy the moral high ground.
They come to this country illegally. Honest people obey the law even when they may not agree with said laws. Our system does not allow for illegal entry. Do you lock your doors at night? I do but once in a while I forget. So does this make it my fault when someone enters univited? No it is the fault of the intruder. Is it my fault that some pawnshops will buy stolen goods? Do we now blame the pawn shops who buy stolen goods because my house was broken into? No I blame the original criminal who entered my house.
Human rights. They are guarded. Unfortunately no system is fool proof. The illegals by their very own choices put themselves in a box. This allows the abusers to succeed. Call the police and report the abuse? Face the risk of deportation. Accept the abuse and lower the risk of deportation.
Tough choices. All lead back to their original choice to ignore the laws.
Do I feel bad when a criminal is raped in prison? Normally not because all individuals involved opted to live outside of civilized society. Do I feel it is acceptable for such things to happen? NO because I don't believe in rape for any reason. That said I also feel as ye sow so shall ye reap.
The blue:
Well where I live H.S kids work in pizza parlors, and resturants, work for landscapers in the summer cutting grass etc. I live in farm country there is no shortage of work ethic among kids here.
You seek to make excuses for illegals. Reminds me of TV comercials in the 1970's. Don't let a good kid go bad. Lock your doors.
Well a good kid wouldn't enter your home , your car, or steal from you. But a bad kid sure will and a locked door doesn't change this fact. But those old comercials tried to transfer blame to society. Illegals made the choice to be criminals. They own the R for what follows such a choice.
The procedures that I propose? Those are the reality already...
I HAVE SAID A THOUSAND TIMES THAT I DO NOT ADVOCATE OR ACCEPT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Tinman01, without your accusation (in purple) your post would have made more sense. No need to misrepresent others to make your point across. Nowhere on my posts does it say that I make excuses for people to break the law. I happen to write well and I simply don't use inflammatory language to present my thoughts. Your reality is different from that of millions of others who don't live in farms and countryside. In cities, where I happen to live, most kids don't do the jobs performed by illegals who live in the cities. Does making a statement of fact make me be someone who favors illegal immigration? Only someone with little intelligence could say that, so I am not worried about it.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:06 PM
 
2,930 posts, read 6,026,525 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman82 View Post
I believe there is enough blame to go around on the illegal immigrant Issue. I would first like to start with the South American countries and Mexico. In 1982 and again in 1994 Mexico suffered a currency crisis, with the Peso being devalued 50% causing hyperinflation. It's important to understand that the Peso is one of the most stable South American currencies.
Couple the economic devastation with a historic birthrate more than twice that of America.. 7 children per woman! (This goes for all South American countries). So over the last century there has been unsustainable population growth with an economy that tanked several times thrusting the native population into poverty. The birthrate in Mexico is now at an all time low, only 2.8 births per woman (replacement rate is 2.1), peso is stronger than ever, growing middle class.. how is that? A) NAFTA provides us a large trade deficit B) America has been a safety valve for the overflow of Mexican and South American peasants that don't believe in family planning C) Remittance payments sent from illegal immigrants strengthen economies back home, making illegal immigration very attractive to foreign governments.
Mexico is not in South America and every country in Latin America has its own currency(except for Ecuador, they use US dollars)

I guess we US Americans don't have maps like such, as in South Africa and Iraq, everywhere like such as...
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
Who is suggesting you or us should "fix Mexico's corruption problem"? I never suggested you go to Mexico and became a government official there. Although our government does have a penchant for trying to fix others problems, or doesn't it? E.g., Irak, Afghanistan, etc.

Your response makes no sense in that if Mexico has always had a bad, elitist government, from the time of its independence, then how come the massive influx of Mexicans started in the 80s and not earlier? For the hundredth time, there used to be peaceful border crossing in the 40s, 50s and 60s. I don't believe Mexico had a non-corrupt government then, or did it? Well, no, according to your argument about the Spanish elite.

If you figure out what a problem's root-cause is, you can PREVENT it from affecting you. If bad amnesty policy led to the situation we're in, then we need to learn what made our American leaders pass it in the first place, so that future governments don't do the same. So, no, your answer is not "historically enough" for me or anyone. Please don't respond for the sake of saying whatever and don't imply I am telling people to go "fix someone else's problems." That is simply ludicrous. I thank those posters who are actually referring to specific policies (e.g., Reagan's administration) and regulations (e.g.,Bracero law). I finally feel we're getting somewhere!
Why the hostile tone? And speak for yourself, not others. Do not tell me how I can respond either. it doesn't matter what the "root cause" is. There can only be one solution and that is to enforce our immigration laws that are on the books.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:14 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Why the hostile tone? And speak for yourself, not others. Do not tell me how I can respond either. it doesn't matter what the "root cause" is. There can only be one solution and that is to enforce our immigration laws that are on the books.
Chicagonut, you are the one who is hostile to anyone who doesn't agree with you. You're even replying to some of my other posts in different forums in CityData. You are the one who is angry at the fact that I don't use inflammatory tones. I will keep on speaking my mind, so there.

As of speaking for others, you need to follow your own advice. You're the one responding to replies I have made to others.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
I HAVE SAID A THOUSAND TIMES THAT I DO NOT ADVOCATE OR ACCEPT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Tinman01, without your accusation (in purple) your post would have made more sense. No need to misrepresent others to make your point across. Nowhere on my posts does it say that I make excuses for people to break the law. I happen to write well and I simply don't use inflammatory language to present my thoughts. Your reality is different from that of millions of others who don't live in farms and countryside. In cities, where I happen to live, most kids don't do the jobs performed by illegals who live in the cities. Does making a statement of fact make me be someone who favors illegal immigration? Only someone with little intelligence could say that, so I am not worried about it.
Utter baloney that lower or middle class city kids won't do manual labor jobs for spending money. It is just that the illegals have those jobs sewn up now so they don't have the opportunity like they once had. Even legal Hispanics get the nod over them because they can usually speak Spanish and can communicate with the illegal workers.

Last edited by chicagonut; 08-11-2010 at 04:40 PM..
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