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Old 08-11-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,203,701 times
Reputation: 4611

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
Chicagonut, thanks for replying to my message to Tinaman01. As of for HS kids not wanting to do manual labor, it might be baloney where you live.
Quote:
Where I live, HS kids are only interested in wearing designer clothes, texting on their blackberries, driving BMWs, watching MTV, getting accepted into expensive colleges, etc, etc. I am not saying I condone this lifestyle, but it is the reality of where I live. I can assure you these kids do not want to do the jobs illegals do. Now, I live in a large metropolitan area no different from any other large metro areas in the United States with similar type of kids.
I don't doubt reality is different in other parts of the country where HS kids are willing to work menial jobs. Again, it is wrong to generalize a whole population in our country.
Your talking about a small percentage of the US population and then you assume that that small population is no different then the rest of the nation.

This is a nation wide issue.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:49 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
I guess some call another topic a "forum" when another forum would be something outside of this entire forum. One should learn the difference between a topic in a forum and another forum altogether if they want to speak with clarity. City Data has several forums outside of this illegal immigration forum. End of story.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
Chicagonut, once again proof of your hostility, see red print. The kids I am referring to ARE from middle class families. These families are not wealthy, they live on credit cards and borrowed money. Haven't you heard of this phenomenon sweeping American cities? Why do you think these very people are losing their homes? Seriously, who needs reality check here?? That is why I said that I don't condone this lifestyle. Whether these people can really afford all these material luxuries is a whole other topic that deserves a thread of its own. The reality, once again, is that these kids won't do manual jobs. Come to any large-size town in an industrial city and you will see a reality different from where you live.
Sure, but that still doesn't give a good reason why illegals should be taking those jobs, does it? Or a reason for employers to GIVE those jobs to illegals ahead of those who are here legally who WOULD take those jobs IF they were available and not already filled by illegals.

There are adults who simply can't DO manual labour either - does that excuse illegals taking THOSE jobs as well?
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:33 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
Sure, but that still doesn't give a good reason why illegals should be taking those jobs, does it? Or a reason for employers to GIVE those jobs to illegals ahead of those who are here legally who WOULD take those jobs IF they were available and not already filled by illegals.

There are adults who simply can't DO manual labour either - does that excuse illegals taking THOSE jobs as well?
No, no one is advocating for giving jobs to illegal immigrants. I am also not disputing the fact that there's an adult population that does manual labor either. I have said it many times in my previous posts, that illegal immigration is wrong. The argument ensued because in the area I live, it seems that illegals do the type of work no one else wants to do. When someone said but Americans DO want to do those jobs, I said that some might but not others. Illegal immigration is wrong not just from the standpoint of jobs being lost, but because it creates a host of issues of political and social consequences. Everyone knows this. Also everyone knows that a lot of Americans don't want to do the jobs illegals do. I have no doubt that some do want to do this jobs, but others simply don't. It happens in Saudi Arabia, Europe, Japan, and many other industrialized nations. In my opinion, we should only take immigrants that the country really needs. This people should go through a process, I believe this and none other has been my argument since I entered this forum.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:37 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
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Forum = an online discussion site. It originated as the modern equivalent of a traditional bulletin board, and a technological evolution of the dialup bulletin board system. From a technological standpoint, forums or boards are web applications managing user-generated content. Call it forum or topic, it is a space for freedom of opinion or debate. And in CityData, a topic would actually be called a thread for anyone who may have missed that

Last edited by Catessa; 08-11-2010 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:53 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Whose fault is illegal immigration? I don't know...ANYBODY's, I suppose, except the illegals themselves...right? I mean, whose fault is burglary? Whose fault is drunk driving? Whose fault is child abuse, or failure to pay taxes, or operating a business without a license, or building a house without a permit, or having three kids without a responsible parent? Not those who DO these things, of COURSE.

It's SOMEBODY'S fault....but not theirs; of that much, we can be certain.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:59 PM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Your talking about a small percentage of the US population and then you assume that that small population is no different then the rest of the nation.

This is a nation wide issue.

Hi mkfarnam,

I never made claims in regards to the proportion or percentage of the population I spoke of. If you read my previous posts, I said clearly that I had no doubts that people in other parts of the country might be different. I also admitted that I was speaking only about the large metro area where I happen to live. Could you be kind enough to explain how that qualifies me as making assumptions that a small population is no different than the rest of the nation? Thank You.
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catessa View Post
I HAVE SAID A THOUSAND TIMES THAT I DO NOT ADVOCATE OR ACCEPT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Tinman01, without your accusation (in purple) your post would have made more sense. No need to misrepresent others to make your point across. Nowhere on my posts does it say that I make excuses for people to break the law. I happen to write well and I simply don't use inflammatory language to present my thoughts. Your reality is different from that of millions of others who don't live in farms and countryside. In cities, where I happen to live, most kids don't do the jobs performed by illegals who live in the cities. Does making a statement of fact make me be someone who favors illegal immigration? Only someone with little intelligence could say that, so I am not worried about it.
You don't make excuses? They only do the jobs americans wont. Like janatorial, hotels and dishwashers. That is an excuse and a lame one at that. Your statement is opinion not fact. You assume that city kids won't do those jobs. Perhaps they wont do them under the table or for less than minimum wage. Perhaps they have applied and were refused. Do you know for a fact that no kids from the city or college kids applied for these jobs?
I know a good kid in Chicago who has in fact applied and was turned down in favor of illegals. Its not just us country bumpkins that are willing to work these jobs.
Did I say you favor illegal immigration? Kindly show me that post.
You do make excuses however. From wanting to work for a better life, to placing the blame on employers without giving equal blame to the illegals.
That is making excuses. No kids or people from the city will work these jobs? Maybe they just won't do them for subpar wages.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:21 AM
 
43 posts, read 19,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You don't make excuses? They only do the jobs americans wont. Like janatorial, hotels and dishwashers. That is an excuse and a lame one at that. Your statement is opinion not fact. You assume that city kids won't do those jobs. Perhaps they wont do them under the table or for less than minimum wage. Perhaps they have applied and were refused. Do you know for a fact that no kids from the city or college kids applied for these jobs?
I know a good kid in Chicago who has in fact applied and was turned down in favor of illegals. Its not just us country bumpkins that are willing to work these jobs.
Did I say you favor illegal immigration? Kindly show me that post.
You do make excuses however. From wanting to work for a better life, to placing the blame on employers without giving equal blame to the illegals.
That is making excuses. No kids or people from the city will work these jobs? Maybe they just won't do them for subpar wages.
Tinman01 your anger does not allow you to comprehend what I have said on so many posts. SOME AMERICANS WILL WORK THOSE JOBS, OTHERS WON'T. It is that simple. You need to understand that there are all kinds of Americans, not jut your brand. The kids in my city have said it to me and others that they won't do those jobs. I also said it in another post that THESE kids are interested in wearing designer clothes, texting, and studying to go to the best colleges they can get it. That's reality for them. You're picking and choosing phrases I said and taking them out of context because you are intent on proving ... I don't know what to be honest. I don't understand why you are arguing over this, quite frankly. If I state that we have democrats and republicans in our country. as well as very liberal people and very conservative people, am I making excuses for saying that? By the way, your stating that I make excuses for illegal immigration it's implying that I favor it and you have no right to make those accusations about me.

When it comes to blame, I said that if illegals came here due to amnesty policies, that was wrong. It was wrong to grant sweeping amnesty to individuals who are not victims or a totalitarian regime. How is that making excuses? Look, just because I don't express myself the same way you do, it does not mean I make excuses for anyone. That's an allegation that's flawed no matter how you look at it. Let's face it, if amnesty had not been passed, illegals may not be here in huge numbers. If we were better able to control our border, would illegals cross in big numbers? If employers didn't hire them, would they come? The answers are no,no, and no. You need to realize that there is no one single person or entity to be blamed when it comes to complex issues like these. To say one person is to be blamed is overly simplistic. We are in the situation we are in due to poorly designed policies and these policies have consequences. Do I think people have a right to trespass another country's boarders? NO THEY DO NOT. Do I trespass illegally into other countries? NO, I DO NOT. So, please stop making excuses yourself to pick a fight with me and accuse me of things I am not and have not said. Illegals are wrong for coming illegally, how else can I put it so that you understand? But to extricate blame from the employers who hire them would be wrong too. If our government is passing amnesty laws for these people to come, are you going to say that it is the illegals fault but not the policy? That wouldn't make sense would it? Oh, and Tinman01, I am very much American even though I don't think like you, I am not from your town, and I write and express myself differently from you. Like me there are other Americans and our voice and opinion count whether you like it or not.

Last edited by Catessa; 08-12-2010 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:28 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Tinman, I saw no anger in your post just expressing your opinion like the rest of us. But if one can claim you are angry then it makes you look like you aren't being rational and too emotional. Disregard these kinds of tactics from those who use them.
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