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Old 08-04-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,948,309 times
Reputation: 3083

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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
ďIf you could move north to Canada and earn in one day what it would take you two weeks to earn in your country if you could even find a job, would you go to Canada?"

You're aware of how much money immigrants legal and illegal send home to their families from their jobs in the US.

It's kind of "selfish and unethical" not to honestly examine the other guy's motive, isnt it? I realize some people have only bad intent when they come here, but the vast, vast majority are just trying to better their lives and their families' lives, in the American tradition.

(Now attack away )

At the expense of Americans - which they are NOT......
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:17 AM
 
34,990 posts, read 33,863,084 times
Reputation: 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
At the expense of Americans - which they are NOT......
Your children, or amorphous "Americans"? (or "Canadians"?)
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:47 AM
 
81 posts, read 108,681 times
Reputation: 99
Benicar, I wholeheartedly agree with your solutions.

We need manpower to secure the border, not a berlin wall.
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
You might want to hold off on making a statement like this. I think you're underestimating the severity of the ID theft and fraud problem. Even if a company uses E-verify with all new hires there will be tons of cases where the fraudulent ID information passes through. I could give you specific examples where E-verify cannot recognize the fraud taking place...it really isn't that hard.

That's why I'm so adamant about improving the hiring tools made available to employers and require their use nationwide.
Yes, ID theft and fraud are staples of illegal alien life. However, as previously stated, if our laws were stringently enforced there would be few illegal aliens in this country. Look at every jurisdiction enforcing tough anti-illegal laws, and you will discover they prefer to leave. Attrition through enforcement. We donít have to tolerate illegal immigration; our government simply lacks the will to enforce our laws. Itís that simple.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:10 PM
 
358 posts, read 332,712 times
Reputation: 107
I would like to respond to statements made by both Benicar and Sig. I believe both of you make very valid points, BUT the solution is not with the employer. As an employer in Southern California I can assure you the majority of companies are not hiring or seeking to hire illegal immigrants knowingly. In the automotive industry I am constantly getting inquires about work, mostly from illegal immigrants. I only hire on a W-2 basis NOT an I-9 and require proper documentation. After about one years time I will receive a mismatch of SSN on an employee, and when I inquire the employee goes right down the street to another facility and gets another job. There was one time where an illegal immigrant was using his brothers information to work, they looked identical and I had no idea!! only found out after one of my employees that did not like him informed me. Enforcement of existing laws will NOT fix this issue, does anyone here know why employers love to use I-9's? after the IRCA went into effect this independent contractor status absolves the employer of any guilt for hiring an illegal immigrant, it's a widely used loophole to avoid potential fines if caught. Could you imagine subcontracting work and having to verify all of the companies employees? For example: I send a vehicle out from the repair facility to have the A/C charged, it's a sublet job (subcontracted). I go down to the business and have to verify all the employees there are eligible to work in America.. could you imagine the time and cost associated with that procedure?. We have to also understand that low skilled jobs in the southwest are saturated with illegal labor, severely depressed wages and have completely driven younger generations of Americans out of these industries. Who is going to pay for an education in auto body repair, auto mechanics, construction, etc if there is fierce competition with peanuts as wages? My entire point is that we have lost a lot of skilled American labor to illegal immigration already, and in certain industries it would be detrimental to lose illegal immigrant labor overnight. I would also like to comment on the fingerprinting, national ID, Bio ID, etc. This will not happen in our lifetime, or any time soon. People from all parties would view this as an infringement on our rights and scream "Third Reich", look at SB 1070. This is not a practical solution and will not happen. The government already tried with the Real ID act, that was a baby step that never materialized. Cutting off benefits will not work, we tried that in California with prop. 187 that the courts struck down as being unconstitutional. The anchor baby status will never go away, not without the Fourteenth amendment being repealed.. right now I see neither the Democrats or Republicans jumping on that one, They are both vying for the Hispanic vote and while the Democrats blatantly push the pro-illegal immigrant agenda the Republicans are merely paying lip service to their constituents. What is the solution? I would start by securing the border with troops, make the penalty for illegally crossing 2 years hard labor, and making EVERY local, county and state jails/prisons verify the identity of inmates, turning over those inmates to ICE after their sentences are served.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman82 View Post
I would like to respond to statements made by both Benicar and Sig. I believe both of you make very valid points, BUT the solution is not with the employer. As an employer in Southern California I can assure you the majority of companies are not hiring or seeking to hire illegal immigrants knowingly. In the automotive industry I am constantly getting inquires about work, mostly from illegal immigrants. I only hire on a W-2 basis NOT an I-9 and require proper documentation. After about one years time I will receive a mismatch of SSN on an employee, and when I inquire the employee goes right down the street to another facility and gets another job. There was one time where an illegal immigrant was using his brothers information to work, they looked identical and I had no idea!! only found out after one of my employees that did not like him informed me. Enforcement of existing laws will NOT fix this issue, does anyone here know why employers love to use I-9's? after the IRCA went into effect this independent contractor status absolves the employer of any guilt for hiring an illegal immigrant, it's a widely used loophole to avoid potential fines if caught. Could you imagine subcontracting work and having to verify all of the companies employees? For example: I send a vehicle out from the repair facility to have the A/C charged, it's a sublet job (subcontracted). I go down to the business and have to verify all the employees there are eligible to work in America.. could you imagine the time and cost associated with that procedure?. We have to also understand that low skilled jobs in the southwest are saturated with illegal labor, severely depressed wages and have completely driven younger generations of Americans out of these industries. Who is going to pay for an education in auto body repair, auto mechanics, construction, etc if there is fierce competition with peanuts as wages? My entire point is that we have lost a lot of skilled American labor to illegal immigration already, and in certain industries it would be detrimental to lose illegal immigrant labor overnight. I would also like to comment on the fingerprinting, national ID, Bio ID, etc. This will not happen in our lifetime, or any time soon. People from all parties would view this as an infringement on our rights and scream "Third Reich", look at SB 1070. This is not a practical solution and will not happen. The government already tried with the Real ID act, that was a baby step that never materialized. Cutting off benefits will not work, we tried that in California with prop. 187 that the courts struck down as being unconstitutional. The anchor baby status will never go away, not without the Fourteenth amendment being repealed.. right now I see neither the Democrats or Republicans jumping on that one, They are both vying for the Hispanic vote and while the Democrats blatantly push the pro-illegal immigrant agenda the Republicans are merely paying lip service to their constituents. What is the solution? I would start by securing the border with troops, make the penalty for illegally crossing 2 years hard labor, and making EVERY local, county and state jails/prisons verify the identity of inmates, turning over those inmates to ICE after their sentences are served.
I clearly understand your dilemma. Illegal aliens are well-versed on all of the tricks of the trade. While we are asleep, theyíre awake thinking of their next scam. However, I sense defeatism. Yes, illegal immigration is a huge problem, but we can not simply throw in the towel and allow them to continue to destroy this country.

We need our troops guarding our borders. But, we need to untie their hands and allow them to take care of business. We have been invaded simply because foreigners realize they can enter this country illegally with impunity. Even if deported, the porous borders welcome them back. Thereís a reason people donít attempt to enter Iran without permission, and thereís a reason people arenít afraid to enter the US. We need to instill fear, and as long as we coddle illegals we will continue to be considered a joke.

We also need to have our current laws enforced, and enforced with a vengeance. We have been much too accommodating. Itís time to take off the gloves and rid our country of this scourge. It CAN be done.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,948,309 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Your children, or amorphous "Americans"? (or "Canadians"?)
You require reading comprehension 101?

AMERICANS - those in the United States of America - LEGALLY

and yes, MY children and GRANDchildren - Americans.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:46 PM
 
358 posts, read 332,712 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I clearly understand your dilemma. Illegal aliens are well-versed on all of the tricks of the trade. While we are asleep, theyíre awake thinking of their next scam. However, I sense defeatism. Yes, illegal immigration is a huge problem, but we can not simply throw in the towel and allow them to continue to destroy this country.

We need our troops guarding our borders. But, we need to untie their hands and allow them to take care of business. We have been invaded simply because foreigners realize they can enter this country illegally with impunity. Even if deported, the porous borders welcome them back. Thereís a reason people donít attempt to enter Iran without permission, and thereís a reason people arenít afraid to enter the US. We need to instill fear, and as long as we coddle illegals we will continue to be considered a joke.

We also need to have our current laws enforced, and enforced with a vengeance. We have been much too accommodating. Itís time to take off the gloves and rid our country of this scourge. It CAN be done.
At times I do feel this problem has become to deeply ingrained in America to be solved, this issue has festered for DECADES and there is no shot term fix all for the problem. I agree that securing the border is the first step, but more importantly we need to bring back labor in the prisons, make illegal immigrants caught crossing earn their keep while incarcerated. Lol.. they could be transported by bus to work the fields, meatpacking plants, etc. Untying the hands of our troops would be considered a hostile act against Mexico, thats why Bush and Obama only allow supporting roles. I believe we have to impose harsh punishment for illegally crossing, but even that will be challenged as infringing on the "civil rights" of the invaders. Thank you for the pep talk, if you saw what I do on a daily basis.. it's really disheartening.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman82 View Post
At times I do feel this problem has become to deeply ingrained in America to be solved, this issue has festered for DECADES and there is no shot term fix all for the problem. I agree that securing the border is the first step, but more importantly we need to bring back labor in the prisons, make illegal immigrants caught crossing earn their keep while incarcerated. Lol.. they could be transported by bus to work the fields, meatpacking plants, etc. Untying the hands of our troops would be considered a hostile act against Mexico, thats why Bush and Obama only allow supporting roles. I believe we have to impose harsh punishment for illegally crossing, but even that will be challenged as infringing on the "civil rights" of the invaders. Thank you for the pep talk, if you saw what I do on a daily basis.. it's really disheartening.

Dealing with this massive invasion and our quivering, spineless government, itís easy to become disheartened. I totally agree that we should punish illegals by sentencing them to hard labor. Hang in there, we WILL prevail.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:49 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
ďIf you could move north to Canada and earn in one day what it would take you two weeks to earn in your country if you could even find a job, would you go to Canada?"

You're aware of how much money immigrants legal and illegal send home to their families from their jobs in the US.

It's kind of "selfish and unethical" not to honestly examine the other guy's motive, isnt it? I realize some people have only bad intent when they come here, but the vast, vast majority are just trying to better their lives and their families' lives, in the American tradition.

(Now attack away )
As I said, I would not jump another country's borders illegally to improve mine or my families lives. No one has the right to do that especially since it is against the law and it does and will negatively the citizen families of that country. Perhaps some people don't care how it affects other families but I do.

Attack away? WTH does that mean? I am merely expressing my views.
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