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Old 07-10-2007, 10:30 AM
 
159 posts, read 726,989 times
Reputation: 65

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I just read this today...

By 2050, likely most of California's largely white baby boomers will have died, giving way to younger, second- or third-generation Hispanic families. Hispanics are forecast to make up 52 percent of the state's population by midcentury. The rest will be 26 percent white, 13 percent Asian, 5 percent African American, 2 percent multiracial and 1 percent American Indian or Pacific islander

Our government has illegally left our borders open and we will be minorities in
our own home by mid century. Thanks El Presidente BUSH!!!!

 
Old 07-10-2007, 09:02 PM
 
9,716 posts, read 12,940,289 times
Reputation: 3315
There is a great HBO movie from a few years back -- I think it was called "The Second Civil War" or something like that. It was a look into the future of the USA and it was HYSTERICAL! If you haven't seen it, you ought to!
 
Old 07-13-2007, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
And though I agree that English should be spoken by all who wish to live and work in the US ( at least as long as English is the official language !) , I wonder how many people on this forum who go abroad just expect the locals to speak English and get belligerent when they don't? And how many people expect all their business partners to speak English too? There is an assumption from Anglophone nations that other languages are somehow "inferior" and that English should be the main point if reference, which is pretty arrogant.
I can't see how being bilingual can hurt anyone though, immigration issue or not. Surely this is better than being monolingual? If I had kids I would want them to speak as many languages as possible, as it can only be an asset in both the business world and your personal life ( if you intend to understand other cultures anyway).

I agree with Mooseketeer.

In my opinion, Mexicans and other Latin Americans living in the United States should learn English, but that doesn't mean that the U.S. should be unwilling to make the southwest a more bilingual community. Lets face it, the southwestern states are very close—physically, culturally, socially and economically—to Mexico, so what's the harm in having a bilingual zone? Besides, it’s not like Spanish is some godforsaken language that nobody speaks…
 
Old 07-13-2007, 12:27 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
Being bilingual or even trilingual is an excellent goal to achieve. However, it should never be something that is forced upon anyone, and by that, I mean that Mexicans living in Mexico should never be forced to learn English, unless they want to and by the same token, Americans living in America should never be forced to learn Spanish, or any other language for that matter.

The problem with a "bilingual zone" can be historically proven. A sovereign country must have a common language. The fall of Rome began with a country or territory which could not be united. The people spoke a variety of languages and retained a variety of cultures. There was no commonality in the people, who in turn, felt no affinity whatsoever with one another. In creating a "bilingual zone" it becomes impossible for those who cannot speak more than one language to live or to conduct business within this zone.

The language of the United States is English and all of those who live here must learn to speak the language. My Grandparents emigrated from Norway to Minnesota. The vast majority of the populace in Minnesota is descended from former Scandanavian citizens. The native languages in the Scandanavian countries are Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish and Danish. Minnesotans have not set themselves apart from the rest of the U.S. by insisting that the rest of the U.S. become bilingual in a Scandanavian languange in order to communicate. Like my grandparents, they gave up their native languages and learned English. That is the way it should be.

If I were to emigrate to Portugal, I wouldn't expect that the resolution of the language barrier between me and the Portuguese people would be theirs to solve. I would learn to speak Portuguese. Plain and simple.

I like the fact that you believe that those who LEGALLY emigrate from another country should learn English. You're absolutely correct. But a bilingual society in American cannot work because America is made up of people who may be native for many generations or recently legalized. They have realized the value of becoming Americans and in order to do so, we cannot have bilingual zones in which inhabitants speak English/Spanish, English/Sudanese, English/French, English/Mandrin Chinese, etc.

Americans speak English. Those who wish to be a part of her must also speak English. It is fine to honor your heritage. I honor my Native American heritage with my spirituality, my Norwegian heritage in many of my holiday traditions, and my Celtic (Scottish) heritage by learning (attempting to learn) Gaelic. But when the rubber hits the road, I am an all American girl.
 
Old 07-13-2007, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Being bilingual or even trilingual is an excellent goal to achieve. However, it should never be something that is forced upon anyone, and by that, I mean that Mexicans living in Mexico should never be forced to learn English, unless they want to and by the same token, Americans living in America should never be forced to learn Spanish, or any other language for that matter.

The problem with a "bilingual zone" can be historically proven. A sovereign country must have a common language. The fall of Rome began with a country or territory which could not be united. The people spoke a variety of languages and retained a variety of cultures. There was no commonality in the people, who in turn, felt no affinity whatsoever with one another. In creating a "bilingual zone" it becomes impossible for those who cannot speak more than one language to live or to conduct business within this zone.

The language of the United States is English and all of those who live here must learn to speak the language. My Grandparents emigrated from Norway to Minnesota. The vast majority of the populace in Minnesota is descended from former Scandanavian citizens. The native languages in the Scandanavian countries are Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish and Danish. Minnesotans have not set themselves apart from the rest of the U.S. by insisting that the rest of the U.S. become bilingual in a Scandanavian languange in order to communicate. Like my grandparents, they gave up their native languages and learned English. That is the way it should be.

If I were to emigrate to Portugal, I wouldn't expect that the resolution of the language barrier between me and the Portuguese people would be theirs to solve. I would learn to speak Portuguese. Plain and simple.

I like the fact that you believe that those who LEGALLY emigrate from another country should learn English. You're absolutely correct. But a bilingual society in American cannot work because America is made up of people who may be native for many generations or recently legalized. They have realized the value of becoming Americans and in order to do so, we cannot have bilingual zones in which inhabitants speak English/Spanish, English/Sudanese, English/French, English/Mandrin Chinese, etc.

Americans speak English. Those who wish to be a part of her must also speak English. It is fine to honor your heritage. I honor my Native American heritage with my spirituality, my Norwegian heritage in many of my holiday traditions, and my Celtic (Scottish) heritage by learning (attempting to learn) Gaelic. But when the rubber hits the road, I am an all American girl.
From what I gather, Scandinavians make it a point to learn English as a second language from an early age, and they are right to do so. Now, there is a lot of difference between the Scandinavian settlers of Minnesota and the history of the Southwestern United States; I think the latter would share more in common with say the province of Québec.

It’s not about forcing anyone to learn Spanish; it’s about promoting it as a widely-used second language within that zone.
 
Old 07-13-2007, 05:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
You would likely be correct in the assumption that Scandanavians learn English as a second language today, but that was not the case during the early 1900's when my grandparents and many of the families who currently live in Minnesota emigrated. My grandmother knew "please" and "thank you." They taught themselves everything else. Additionally, none of the children or grandchildren (my generation) knows more than a few Norwegian words. When my grandparents came to America, they became Americans.
 
Old 07-13-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
Reputation: 24
The point I was trying to make by mentioning that Scandinavians learn English as a second language is that they are open to doing so, because they know it's in their best interest. The are many countries where the stance is “We’re not gonna learn that imperialistic language.”
 
Old 07-13-2007, 08:32 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
The point I was trying to make by mentioning that Scandinavians learn English as a second language is that they are open to doing so, because they know it's in their best interest. The are many countries where the stance is “We’re not gonna learn that imperialistic language.”
Now I see where you're coming from my friend. I can understand where that would likely be the case, especially in the various countries in which the U.S.A. is losing the "All Around Favorite Imperialistic Country" popularity contest.
 
Old 07-13-2007, 08:55 PM
 
Location: phoenix,this place is horrible
105 posts, read 291,056 times
Reputation: 73
Kele and Mexicanguy i respect both of your opinions, but alot of people here have been doing their jobs far too long to be told that they need to learn a second language or they cant get a job that some rookie can.I have been a warehouse superviser for a long time and when i have to learn a second language but the people that they are hiring cant speak english, then there is a serious problem.
I would be open to learning a second language but that also means that the other employee also learns to speak english.I have no problem with people moving to this country and becoming legal citizens if they respect our laws, speak english and truly and honestly would die for this great country.We have way too many illegals that are coming here and taking jobs from employers that are only hiring them because they can pay them less and take jobs from legal citizens.They are also getting fake credentials, driver licenses, social security cards and soaking the system while legal citizens are getting turned away for medical help even though they worked for many years to receive the benefits.
One more point: The people that are sneaking across the border are mostly felons and troublemakers that are making our country unsafe to live in like it use to be.I do respect both your opinions very much and you made amny good points.
 
Old 07-13-2007, 09:24 PM
 
16 posts, read 80,395 times
Reputation: 17
Why blame only the Spanish language? Cities like Monterey Park, Alhambra, San Gabriel have restaurants where their menus are completely in Chinese. At least Spanish is easier to figure out, but Oriental languages such as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, etc are not.
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