U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 12-21-2008, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,067,014 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
Exactly. The refusal to assimilate is the heart of many people's objection to learning Spanish. We should not have to placate them if they show zero respect for us.
What is the biggest group of people immigrating here legally and illegally? Mexicans.
Chances are, you're going to see a lot of newly arrived Mexicans.

How many Mexican-Americans do you know? Just because you see a lot of newly arrived people, doesn't mean there is a "refusal" to assimilate. There are plenty of people who are evidence of Mexicans assimilating. But many choose to dwell on the presence of the newly arrived, as some kind of twisted evidence that they are "showing zero respect" and have a "refusal to assimilate". It's nuts.

 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:06 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
37,633 posts, read 11,078,246 times
Reputation: 33886
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
What is the biggest group of people immigrating here legally and illegally? Mexicans.
Chances are, you're going to see a lot of newly arrived Mexicans.

How many Mexican-Americans do you know? Just because you see a lot of newly arrived people, doesn't mean there is a "refusal" to assimilate. There are plenty of people who are evidence of Mexicans assimilating. But many choose to dwell on the presence of the newly arrived, as some kind of twisted evidence that they are "showing zero respect" and have a "refusal to assimilate". It's nuts.
I know many Spanish-speaking immigrants (not all are Mexican) who have been here for years and yet do not speak English. I live in So Cal so I see this often. What irks many tax payers is the fact that our government is spending lots of money translating materials into SPanish and paying bilingual bonuses for Spanish speaking employees and ignoring the needs of other newly arrived immigrants.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:15 PM
 
Location: John From Scranton
858 posts, read 1,626,017 times
Reputation: 412
Spanish is spoken by at least an estimated 350 million people around the world and is currently the 4th most commonly spoken language worldwide.

Geographically, a large number of countries have Spanish as a dominant language: Spain, the United States, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, Equatorial Guinea, the Philippines, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Peru, Mexico, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Panama, Colombia, Bolivia, Paraguay, and Uruguay. Knowing Spanish opens the door for you to communicate with 1/3 of a billion speakers worldwide!

Wow.... Soon it will be # 1

Why learn Spanish? - Why study Spanish? - 10 Reasons to learn Spanish - Por qué aprender español?
 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:31 PM
 
1,426 posts, read 1,700,810 times
Reputation: 636
Top 8 reasons to learn english

http://www.hiwhy.com/2006/12/20/top-...learn-english/
 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:39 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
37,633 posts, read 11,078,246 times
Reputation: 33886
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Springs Gator View Post
Top 8 reasons to learn english

Top 8 Reasons to Learn English
Many who refuse to learn English do so at their own peril. Your opportunities in this country is very limited without a mastery of English and you cannot rely on the government to provide translation services in the event of emergency situations.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,067,014 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
I know many Spanish-speaking immigrants (not all are Mexican) who have been here for years and yet do not speak English. I live in So Cal so I see this often. What irks many tax payers is the fact that our government is spending lots of money translating materials into SPanish and paying bilingual bonuses for Spanish speaking employees and ignoring the needs of other newly arrived immigrants.
Ignoring the needs of other newly arrived immigrants?
Mexicans/Latinos are just another immigrant group. They happen to be biggest group, so it makes sense for the government to do all they can, so they go after the common language shared by most of the "newly arrived". Spanish.

In places with large concentrations of Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos, translation is also offered for those groups.

I don't buy that argument, and the concern for the needs of other immigrants. It doesn't make sense.
When 70 percent of newly arrived immigrants speak one language, 10 percent a different language, 5 percent each of of two other languages, which makes more sense to be translated more often?

And you didn't explain all the Latinos who are already assimilated here. Even children of illegals who grow up in the United States grow up being bilingual.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:19 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,585 posts, read 5,009,879 times
Reputation: 6111
Default The Real Problem...

The real problem is the length of my reply. Oh well...

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that English be exclusive in an official capacity within our country. However, I don’t really see what calling English the 'official' language will do. Yes, it would certainly stop the ‘press one for English and dos for Español’ messages at the local federal courthouse. And yes, the bilingual pamphlets would be extinct at your local government offices. But, so what? Calling English the ‘official language’ seems rather like calling hotdogs the ‘official food’ at baseball games. It is in essence, meaningless.

In a police state, opposition to the utterance of foreign words can be enforced with threat, punitive measures, imprisonment, or bloodshed. Conversely, in a ‘free society,’ it cannot. I don’t recall the constitutional right to freedom of speech being qualified as freedom of ENGLISH speech. What do some of you propose to do? Will you go around town with pitchforks and torches, door to door, on an ‘English crusade’?

You simply cannot, in a free country, force anyone to speak any way. The very idea goes against all this country is supposed to stand for. If a group of individuals want to go around grunting like Neanderthals, that IS their right. Whatever is spoken by individuals in a private or social context is their business, not yours. What you CAN do through legislation is require that all official government business be conducted in English. This makes absolute sense, since English is the de facto language of our country. And even though it is common sense that when one lives in a country, one should speak the de facto language, you have no right to force private businesses or individuals to do so. Nor should you. It's not your call. If you don't want to hear a foreign language being spoken--don't listen. If you don’t like what a private business is doing for any reason, there is no one holding a gun to your head--take your business elsewhere. Simple!

Foreign languages have been part of our country since its inception. Through the years, there has been hundreds of newspapers in many foreign languages printed right here in the good ol’ US of A: French, German, Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish, Danish, Italian, so on. And yes, by golly… Spanish! The country is still here, isn’t it? There have been classrooms, churches, businesses, social clubs, etc, all functioning exclusively in languages other than English. Read some history, people! And through all of it… we are still a functional Anglophone country. Even now, there are STILL minority languages spoken in pockets all around our nation—French, German, Dutch, etc. I quite frequently go into the local stores and hear German, French, and other languages. Why would that bother me? Why should it? Actually, I think it’s great. It adds some interest to an otherwise boring afternoon of hearing some moron (in English) broadcasting his entire life’s business into his cell phone… and to anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot.

If any of you have read linguistic studies of the hundreds of minority languages spoken in the past (within the US), you wouldn’t even be having this discussion—assuming your gripes are strictly language based. First generation immigrants have typically had a rather high percentage of persistence in speaking their native languages. But guess what happens with the second generation? And guess what is gone in the vast majority of cases by the third generation? Yep… that nasty foreign language (unfortunately).

I think many of you have A VERY LEGITIMATE gripe. But your gripe really has nothing to do with language at all. Language has nothing to do with the thousands upon thousands of illegal aliens pouring across the border. Language has nothing to do with people who should not even be in our country getting free medical care, housing, food, cars, etc. Language has nothing to do with our immigration laws being used as toilet paper by our bureaucracy. You are using language as a scapegoat. If you want to solve the real problem, don’t worry about which language your neighbor speaks--that’s his or her business. Don’t worry about what the sign reads above the local market--that’s their business as private entrepreneurs.

To solve the real problem, you need to look within. You elect your leaders. If you want something to be done about the free handouts to non-citizens, elect someone who will do something about it. Your leaders are tying the hands of all the agencies that are supposed to be upholding laws which are already on the books... and not being enforced. One more law calling English the ‘official language’ isn’t going to do squat. Quit blaming language for a much more fundamental flaw in our government and its policies.

Here’s an analogy for you: Say you have a nice field of alfalfa. Say your neighbor raises horses. Say you walk out to the gate one day, open it up and let all those horses into your field. Whose fault is it when all your hay gets eaten up? The horses’? And does it make any difference at all that the horses do not speak English?

Hell, if I knew I could immigrate to Canada and have free everything given to me when I get there, I’d be there in a heartbeat. Only an idiot wouldn’t. So, rather than crying about what language someone speaks, why don’t you see want you can do to ‘close the gate’?


By the way, I sure hate to read the word 'assimilate.' That word is responsible for some of the most heartbreaking, terrifying, and brutal chapters of history.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 9,107,457 times
Reputation: 4611
Those in this duscussion that highly defend speaking spanish as if it's a matter of life and death.
Reading your posts shows that all of your theories on the benefits of learning Spanish, is based on and aimed at a certain type and class bracket of American citizens and non Citizens, as if this was the only class of people existing in the US.
Anyone outside of that bracket is down graded and criticized because you can't face the fact that Spanish or a second language is not a dying necessity at every type of employment or in every style of life.
Your very narrow minded.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:43 PM
 
Location: John From Scranton
858 posts, read 1,626,017 times
Reputation: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
The real problem is the length of my reply. Oh well...
yes it is a bit lengthy..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that English be exclusive in an official capacity within our country. However, I don’t really see what calling English the 'official' language will do. Yes, it would certainly stop the ‘press one for English and dos for Español’ messages at the local federal courthouse. And yes, the bilingual pamphlets would be extinct at your local government offices. But, so what? Calling English the ‘official language’ seems rather like calling hotdogs the ‘official food’ at baseball games. It is in essence, meaningless.
That is the language that is used in the USA!! If i went to mexico, to live and start a life, im sure they would want me to learn to speak spanish. Or I would be enforced to..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
In a police state, opposition to the utterance of foreign words can be enforced with threat, punitive measures, imprisonment, or bloodshed. Conversely, in a ‘free society,’ it cannot. I don’t recall the constitutional right to freedom of speech being qualified as freedom of ENGLISH speech. What do some of you propose to do? Will you go around town with pitchforks and torches, door to door, on an ‘English crusade’?
Nope, but if you want to live in this country learn to speak ENGLISH!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post

You simply cannot, in a free country, force anyone to speak any way. The very idea goes against all this country is supposed to stand for. If a group of individuals want to go around grunting like Neanderthals, that IS their right. Whatever is spoken by individuals in a private or social context is their business, not yours. What you CAN do through legislation is require that all official government business be conducted in English. This makes absolute sense, since English is the de facto language of our country. And even though it is common sense that when one lives in a country, one should speak the de facto language, you have no right to force private businesses or individuals to do so. Nor should you. It's not your call. If you don't want to hear a foreign language being spoken--don't listen. If you don’t like what a private business is doing for any reason, there is no one holding a gun to your head--take your business elsewhere. Simple!

Foreign languages have been part of our country since its inception. Through the years, there has been hundreds of newspapers in many foreign languages printed right here in the good ol’ US of A: French, German, Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish, Danish, Italian, so on. And yes, by golly… Spanish! The country is still here, isn’t it? There have been classrooms, churches, businesses, social clubs, etc, all functioning exclusively in languages other than English. Read some history, people! And through all of it… we are still a functional Anglophone country. Even now, there are STILL minority languages spoken in pockets all around our nation—French, German, Dutch, etc. I quite frequently go into the local stores and hear German, French, and other languages. Why would that bother me? Why should it? Actually, I think it’s great. It adds some interest to an otherwise boring afternoon of hearing some moron (in English) broadcasting his entire life’s business into his cell phone… and to anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot.

If any of you have read linguistic studies of the hundreds of minority languages spoken in the past (within the US), you wouldn’t even be having this discussion—assuming your gripes are strictly language based. First generation immigrants have typically had a rather high percentage of persistence in speaking their native languages. But guess what happens with the second generation? And guess what is gone in the vast majority of cases by the third generation? Yep… that nasty foreign language (unfortunately).

I think many of you have A VERY LEGITIMATE gripe. But your gripe really has nothing to do with language at all. Language has nothing to do with the thousands upon thousands of illegal aliens pouring across the border. Language has nothing to do with people who should not even be in our country getting free medical care, housing, food, cars, etc. Language has nothing to do with our immigration laws being used as toilet paper by our bureaucracy. You are using language as a scapegoat. If you want to solve the real problem, don’t worry about which language your neighbor speaks--that’s his or her business. Don’t worry about what the sign reads above the local market--that’s their business as private entrepreneurs.

To solve the real problem, you need to look within. You elect your leaders. If you want something to be done about the free handouts to non-citizens, elect someone who will do something about it. Your leaders are tying the hands of all the agencies that are supposed to be upholding laws which are already on the books... and not being enforced. One more law calling English the ‘official language’ isn’t going to do squat. Quit blaming language for a much more fundamental flaw in our government and its policies.
English is the ‘official language’

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Here’s an analogy for you: Say you have a nice field of alfalfa. Say your neighbor raises horses. Say you walk out to the gate one day, open it up and let all those horses into your field. Whose fault is it when all your hay gets eaten up? The horses’? And does it make any difference at all that the horses do not speak English?
Don't tell me we have "illegal horseigrates" now!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Hell, if I knew I could immigrate to Canada and have free everything given to me when I get there, I’d be there in a heartbeat. Only an idiot wouldn’t. So, rather than crying about what language someone speaks, why don’t you see want you can do to ‘close the gate’?


By the way, I sure hate to read the word 'assimilate.' That word is responsible for some of the most heartbreaking, terrifying, and brutal chapters of history.
Wish I could go some where and get everything for free too!! But I would be put in jail if I tried!! illegals can get away with it.. Us people here in the USA CAN'T!!
 
Old 12-22-2008, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Missouri
3,641 posts, read 2,860,108 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Sorry if i have trouble buying conspiracy theories like that.
You have trouble buying any truth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.



All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top