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Old 01-12-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,075 posts, read 1,777,767 times
Reputation: 946

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
It doesn't sound like it.
Ditto that, doesn't sound like it 2 me 4 sure! AZ BEAR doesn't need me 2 defend him,but, he sure doesn't "just make stuff up." If you are defending the U.S. you sure have a funny way of doing it!

 
Old 01-12-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,917,032 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
1. you are the one who complained about sitting on the phone for 30 minutes.
2. i live in miami without that problem, i really think you are trying to make things up here
3. our government has that button because of the high population of people that speak it. It is difficult to just learn a new language, and because of the high population of Spanish speakers then they will help them out a bit.

4. If I remember correctly, I was in the Minneapolis and there was no Spanish, instead everything was in English and Chinese. Why should we cater to those CHINESE PEOPLE!? Haha, come on, it isn't the people, it is the population, get over it.
I was responding to your post claiming the reason we have press one for spanish is for capitalist reasons.
Ever call the USCIS? I have. And you are lucky to have it over in just 30 minutes. That is if and when you finally get a live operator.
I Learned another language at 42 years old. To make it harder still unlike immigrants who live here I was not surrounded, inandated by the chosen language. I chose Thai out of respect for my wife and her family. Its not impossible to learn another language in a timely basis. It is challenging to be sure.. But then you really need to want to learn that language and apply yourself. As the majority of legal immigrants including hispanics have demonstrated its not impossible.
Make what up? You challenge my verasity? I agree why should we cater to those chinese? Or any foreign speakers for that matter. They came here on their own adapt. I go to Thailand every year. I adapt, I speak their language and expect no special treatment.
You still failed to explain what capitalism has to do with why our gov has the press one for spanish. That was from your earlier post. You were the one who stated it has nothing to do with pandering to hispanics and everything to do with capitalism.
I agree with you when it comes to a business. I simply disagree with you when it comes to our Gov.
 
Old 01-12-2009, 04:27 PM
 
117 posts, read 132,231 times
Reputation: 53
tinman ever the diplomat with a gun.... Just tell this troll what you really think. Why beat around the bush. 20 years later and still the same...
Look Burgler its simple. This is tthe USA. The language of Gov is english. If you want to do business with the fed or any level of gov speak the language...
Immigrants came here by choice. Adapt or get out. It is totally rediculous to expect a nation to adapt to the immigrant legal or otherwise.
 
Old 01-12-2009, 09:26 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,436 posts, read 10,036,385 times
Reputation: 9172
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
It is difficult to just learn a new language, and because of the high population of Spanish speakers then they will help them out a bit.

Haha, come on, it isn't the people, it is the population, get over it.
Okay, how about if all those tax dollars go to helping with tuition for an ESL (English) course, rather than pandering? Wouldn't that be even a bigger help? Hey, I have a degree in English and I'd love to help out... for a price.

You're right... it is the population. And the population's de facto language is English, not the 5000 or so other world languages.

--------------------------------------

I love languages. I spend most of my waking hours (outside of work) studying them. Since it’s a free country, I will speak any language I like (and do) on my own time--in stores, at home, with friends... wherever.

HOWEVER… I have to agree with many of the English only folks on many valid points. First of all, if you are in this country to stay, you need English skills. Simple as that. It’s really not asking that much since most folks from outside the US are multilingual anyway. It’s not uncommon for people from Eastern Europe to know five or more languages. And it’s really not a big deal to them. For most of us ‘regular’ folks, learning a language is hard and takes time--but then so does most of the other things we do in life that are worthwhile.

English is the de facto language here (just like French is in France, German is in Germany, etc). So doesn’t it make sense that our government stick with English? It has worked fine for over 200 years. YES, there have always been foreign language newspapers, businesses, classes, etc. That’s fine. But through all the waves of immigration and a good portion of the populace speaking other languages at one time or another, the government has done its thing in English. Why change now? Let the immigrant put forth the effort, NOT us, NOT our tax dollar. Even subsidized English classes would be more beneficial than pandering.

I speak Spanish and I really don’t mind pressing 1 for English anyway… but don’t you think that it’s a little discriminatory to have the press one and two thing? Other immigrants don’t have a number. They take the time to learn English. You seldom have the issue with, say, German, Italian, Romanian, Russian, or Swedish people when they immigrate. Some speak better English than we natives do. If they can learn, everyone can. I can tell you that Chinese is about as far from English as it gets… learning Chinese for us or English for them is damned hard; way harder than the jump from Spanish to English. Yet the overwhelming majority of Chinese immigrants do fine learning English. Or I guess we could change the phone number system to 1 through 5000 reserved for each of the world's languages when you call the government for anything. It’s only fair, right?

Personally, if I had my druthers, we would all speak Norwegian (Snakk norsk eller forlat!) or Icelandic or even German. I think English is an ugly language (and this is coming from someone who thinks German is a pretty language!). But none of that has anything to do with it. English is what we speak as a nation. If you want to be here, know it. Speak whatever you want on your time, but know English. It’s a matter of respect to the people here and the culture. I’m planning on a possible move to Quebec in the future. Guess what language I’m learning right now? Why? Because that’s what they speak (yes, indeed, I listen to Quebec radio all the time--it is French! Sort of. A little Frenglish thrown in at times. ) and I respect the populace and their culture--besides, the sound of French gives me the warm fuzzies...





So we are all repeating ourselves on this thread. But that's okay. I've got my stance on the issue down pretty well now. I didn't so much when I first chimed in... just want to thank y'all for giving me clarity!
 
Old 01-13-2009, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,416 posts, read 25,285,284 times
Reputation: 16469
Quote:
Originally Posted by leatherhead View Post
tinman ever the diplomat with a gun.... Just tell this troll what you really think. Why beat around the bush. 20 years later and still the same...
Look Burgler its simple. This is tthe USA. The language of Gov is english. If you want to do business with the fed or any level of gov speak the language...
Immigrants came here by choice. Adapt or get out. It is totally rediculous to expect a nation to adapt to the immigrant legal or otherwise.

You are calling me a troll? I'm not being a troll, I'm simply saying I have no problem with an immigrant to not choose to learn English. Truthfully, it doesn't hurt me, it only hurts them. I have no problem with people who choose to not learn Spanish, doesn't hurt me, only hurts them. I have no problem with the government offering help to the Spanish speaking population because there are 350million+ living here. If there were the same amounts of German immigrants in the US, you would hear German being spoken.

If you ask me, you should be happy an immigrant chooses not to learn English, because it makes you a stronger job applicant.

Most immigrants really do put in a lot of effort to learn English, but it really is difficult to learn.
 
Old 01-13-2009, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,416 posts, read 25,285,284 times
Reputation: 16469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
Ditto that, doesn't sound like it 2 me 4 sure! AZ BEAR doesn't need me 2 defend him,but, he sure doesn't "just make stuff up." If you are defending the U.S. you sure have a funny way of doing it!

What is my funny way of doing it? Saying that I'm for a free market and freedom of speech? I prefer our ammendments! You cannot force anything on anybody as long as they aren't hurting anybody else.
 
Old 01-13-2009, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,416 posts, read 25,285,284 times
Reputation: 16469
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I was responding to your post claiming the reason we have press one for spanish is for capitalist reasons.
Ever call the USCIS? I have. And you are lucky to have it over in just 30 minutes. That is if and when you finally get a live operator.
I Learned another language at 42 years old. To make it harder still unlike immigrants who live here I was not surrounded, inandated by the chosen language. I chose Thai out of respect for my wife and her family. Its not impossible to learn another language in a timely basis. It is challenging to be sure.. But then you really need to want to learn that language and apply yourself. As the majority of legal immigrants including hispanics have demonstrated its not impossible.
Make what up? You challenge my verasity? I agree why should we cater to those chinese? Or any foreign speakers for that matter. They came here on their own adapt. I go to Thailand every year. I adapt, I speak their language and expect no special treatment.
You still failed to explain what capitalism has to do with why our gov has the press one for spanish. That was from your earlier post. You were the one who stated it has nothing to do with pandering to hispanics and everything to do with capitalism.
I agree with you when it comes to a business. I simply disagree with you when it comes to our Gov.
Yes, I understand your view with it, but honestly, I'm lost as to where it hurts you to see a sign in a different language, or to see assistance to another group of people. Just because there is a bilingual sign doesn't effect you, simply because you hear a different language in the supermarket doesn't effect you. If there is an option to press 1 for spanish, simply don't press it, trust me, that's not hurting that much time off of you.

I'm lost as to where it is hurting everybody else if there's an option for Spanish, I'm lost as to why you are so against helping anyone else simply based on language.

If the US were to say it is mandatory to learn Spanish, I would understand the frustration, and I would understand why you would be angry. But, it is ALL optional. Do you think the Europeans are all complaining because they are taught english at a young age?
 
Old 01-13-2009, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,917,032 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
Yes, I understand your view with it, but honestly, I'm lost as to where it hurts you to see a sign in a different language, or to see assistance to another group of people. Just because there is a bilingual sign doesn't effect you, simply because you hear a different language in the supermarket doesn't effect you. If there is an option to press 1 for spanish, simply don't press it, trust me, that's not hurting that much time off of you.

I'm lost as to where it is hurting everybody else if there's an option for Spanish, I'm lost as to why you are so against helping anyone else simply based on language.

If the US were to say it is mandatory to learn Spanish, I would understand the frustration, and I would understand why you would be angry. But, it is ALL optional. Do you think the Europeans are all complaining because they are taught english at a young age?
The cost to facilitate them is what is annoying.They chose to come here its upon them to adapt. But good post and reasonable.
 
Old 01-13-2009, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,678,111 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
You are calling me a troll? I'm not being a troll, I'm simply saying I have no problem with an immigrant to not choose to learn English. Truthfully, it doesn't hurt me, it only hurts them. I have no problem with people who choose to not learn Spanish, doesn't hurt me, only hurts them. I have no problem with the government offering help to the Spanish speaking population because there are 350million+ living here. If there were the same amounts of German immigrants in the US, you would hear German being spoken.

If you ask me, you should be happy an immigrant chooses not to learn English, because it makes you a stronger job applicant.

Most immigrants really do put in a lot of effort to learn English, but it really is difficult to learn.
That is not our problem. If our greedy employers were forced to spend some time in jail for knowingly hiring illegal aliens-----------trust me: said employers would cough up the $$$ or go out of business.
 
Old 01-13-2009, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,925,585 times
Reputation: 1197
As an fyi - the US government began accomodating other languages in official pamphlets way back in the 1850s. The Founding Fathers were pretty clear that in keeping with our being a nation of individual freedoms they did not want to impose a National Language on all of the immigrants who came here from different countries. Percentage wise we have less foreign speakers in the US today then we did a century ago.

We are just catching up now with most of the rest of the world which is multilingual. We are living in a global world kiddos. Adapt or get left behind.

And to answer the OP - why should you learn Spanish? Personally I was just offered a job earning 13% more than I am currently... thanks in large part to my Spanish speaking skills which I picked up as an adult. You can bet I am making sure my kids learn too.
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