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Old 01-15-2009, 07:16 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One thing that many of the MEChA types fail to think through is if the USA did indeed turn Hispanic----------that would simply reinforce the elite being mostly White to the detriment of the Mestizos.
Agreed.

Quote:
English as a Universal Language

by Carlos Carrion Torres - Vitoria ES - Brazil


English is without a doubt the actual universal language. It is the world's second largest native language, the official language in 70 countries, and English-speaking countries are responsible for about 40% of world's total GNP.
English can be at least understood almost everywhere among scholars and educated people, as it is the world media language, and the language of cinema, TV, pop music and the computer world. All over the planet people know many English words, their pronunciation and meaning.

The causes for this universality are very well known and understandable. English first began to spread during the 16th century with British Empire and was strongly reinforced in 20th by USA world domination in economic, political and military aspects and by the huge influence of American movies.
The concept of a Universal Language is more significant only now, in the era of world mass communication. Before this era Greek, Latin, French were to some extent universal languages, though mainly in Europe.
Moderator cut: shortened, copyright protection

English as a Universal Language

Last edited by Yac; 01-16-2009 at 03:45 AM..

 
Old 01-15-2009, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Side note here: to speak basic English is not that difficult.

Now: if discussing correct English usage----------that language can be a son-of-a-gun.

Also: even the Hungarian language is starting to be riddled with English words.

http://www.rentacontainer.hu/ Note despite the website being in Hungarian-----------the items within are described in English (shipping containers) in the URL.
 
Old 01-15-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Side note here: to speak basic English is not that difficult.

Now: if discussing correct English usage----------that language can be a son-of-a-gun.

Also: even the Hungarian language is starting to be riddled with English words.

::: Rent a Container City ::: Note despite the website being in Hungarian-----------the items within are described in English (shipping containers) in the URL.
Isn't that the truth! Some people massacre the language; and they were born here.
 
Old 01-15-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,306 posts, read 9,975,609 times
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Another side note. I know this is off topic, but since the reference is already above, and I’m intensely interested in language and linguistics, I can’t help it! Maybe I'll start another thread about this. In the mean time, please forgive me!

I can say that of the languages I’ve studied or am at least familiar with, the regular structure of English (it’s grammar) is mercifully easy and quite logical (that’s coming from a linguistics perspective, not just because I speak it). With the exception of Malay (or Indonesian), it’s about the easiest natural language around (that I’m familiar with) to get a basic grasp on.

However, it has two annoying faults. If these faults were ‘regularized,’ English would just be the coolest thing since sliced bread. The first is the major stumbling block: The current spelling scheme is absolutely asinine. There’s no way around it. And there is no way to defend it. Native speakers are okay with it (at least some of them) because they grew up with it and ‘that’s the way it is.’ But if you analyze it from a logical stance, it’s completely and profoundly ridiculous. In far too many cases, the spelling has nothing to do with the spoken word. If our spelling system were phonetic, it would make it easier on learners and native speakers alike. Noah Webster had the right idea 200 years ago—let’s use some logic to decide how to spell our words.

The second problem is the overabundance of grammatical exceptions to the regular rules. Can you imagine how ‘streamlined’ our language would be if the grammar rules were 100% consistent and if the spelling were phonetic? It's not impossible--although a complicated language, Turkish is super consistent grammatically and very phonetic (after a reform within the last century). All things considered, if that were the case with English, it would undoubtedly be the perfect “lingua franca.” It’s close, but it could be better. Easy to speak, easy to learn, easy to write. Ahhh, if only!

Last edited by ChrisC; 01-15-2009 at 08:08 PM..
 
Old 01-15-2009, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Another side note. I know this is off topic, but since the reference is already above, and Iím intensely interested in language and linguistics, I canít help it! Maybe I'll start another thread about this. In the mean time, please forgive me!

I can say that of the languages Iíve studied or am at least familiar with, the regular structure of English (itís grammar) is mercifully easy and quite logical (thatís coming from a linguistics perspective, not just because I speak it). With the exception of Malay (or Indonesian), itís about the easiest natural language around (that Iím familiar with) to get a basic grasp on.

However, it has two annoying faults. If these faults were Ďregularized,í English would just be the coolest thing since sliced bread. The first is the major stumbling block: The current spelling scheme is absolutely asinine. Thereís no way around it. And there is no way to defend it. Native speakers are okay with it (at least some of them) because they grew up with it and Ďthatís the way it is.í But if you analyze it from a logical stance, itís completely and profoundly ridiculous. In far too many cases, the spelling has nothing to do with the spoken word. If our spelling system were phonetic, it would make it easier on learners and native speakers alike. Noah Webster had the right idea 200 years agoóletís use some logic to decide how to spell our words.

The second problem is the overabundance of grammatical exceptions to the regular rules. Can you imagine how Ďstreamlinedí our language would be if the grammar rules were 100% consistent and if the spelling were phonetic? It's not impossible--although very complicated, Turkish is also very consistent and very phonetic. All things considered, if that were the case, English would undoubtedly be the perfect ďlingua franca.Ē Itís close, but it could be better. Easy to speak, easy to learn, easy to write. Ahhh, if only!
True. Whose bright idea was it to have "silent" letters?
 
Old 01-15-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One thing that many of the MEChA types fail to think through is if the USA did indeed turn Hispanic----------that would simply reinforce the elite being mostly White to the detriment of the Mestizos.
The elite being mostly white? Oh man, I couldn't take that kind of dramatic change...

By the way, isn't Mexico's president mestizo?

Venezuela's president of Indian and Black ancestry?

Bolivia's president fully indigenous?

Who wants the USA to turn Hispanic anyways? Is that your fear of the growing Hispanic(-American) population?
 
Old 01-15-2009, 08:12 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
[quote=ChrisC;7017278]A Ahhh, if only!


Quote:
The current spelling scheme is absolutely asinine. Thereís no way around it. And there is no way to defend it. Native speakers are okay with it (at least some of them) because they grew up with it and Ďthatís the way it is.í But if you analyze it from a logical stance, itís completely and profoundly ridiculous. In far too many cases, the spelling has nothing to do with the spoken word. If our spelling system were phonetic, it would make it easier on learners and native speakers alike. Noah Webster had the right idea 200 years agoóletís use some logic to decide how to spell our words.

The second problem is the overabundance of grammatical exceptions to the regular rules.
Indeed. The grammatical exceptions are not easy to remember either. I often wonder who came up with those as well.

Great, thoughtful post!
 
Old 01-15-2009, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
The elite being mostly white? Oh man, I couldn't take that kind of dramatic change...

By the way, isn't Mexico's president mestizo?

Venezuela's president of Indian and Black ancestry?

Bolivia's president fully indigenous?

Who wants the USA to turn Hispanic anyways? Is that your fear of the growing Hispanic(-American) population?
The Mexican elite is mostly White: note though that the definition of 'White' is looser in Latin America vs. the USA.

As it stands: Latin Americans are not well liked in Spain----------hell, for that matter, there is bad blood between the two groups in Great Britain of all places. Of course the irony is both 'Hispanic' Limey groups would be counted as Anglo if they came to the USA. Gotta love political labels.
 
Old 01-16-2009, 10:53 PM
 
4,135 posts, read 9,116,913 times
Reputation: 2677
Knowing how to speak a language other than English does NOT mean you should HAVE to in this country. Our chosen language is Englich ( chosen in the 1700s over German) . While I speak reasonably good Spanish and can read it better ( at my own speed), I was taught European Spanish , not mexican. If I went to Spain, I would make an effort to speak their language. I feel no obligation to speak Spanish in the USA
 
Old 01-16-2009, 11:30 PM
 
1,435 posts, read 3,506,315 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
The Mexican elite is mostly White:
Bill Richardson is part of the Mexican/Mexican American elite. Do you consider him to be White ?
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