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Old 02-12-2009, 02:15 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,570 posts, read 4,973,126 times
Reputation: 6099
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
The Philippines were INVADED by the USA from the start of the Spanish-American War (which we all know it was an excuse from the US to take over Cuba, PR, Guam and the Philippines from Spain) until WWII, 1898 to 1946. Of course you will see English language signs. Nothing to do with English being more important than their native language Tagalog. Someone might say that English was FORCED on them. HMMM, maybe is payback time for the USA and that's the reason why a foreign language is being imposed on you now.
The Philippines was under Spanish rule for around three centuries. How much Spanish do you hear there now? Very little. I lived there for around a month, and I heard Spanish not once--except by Hispanic military personnel from the US.

Now, once the Philippines broke the shackles of our Death Star, Darth Vader-like, tyrannical control after WWII, you would think that the country would do all it could to erase (as they seem to have done with Spanish) the language of heathens that we nasty, vile American pigs forced them to speak at gunpoint. Yet, you go there today, and they seem to speak the evil language of Satan of their own accord. Maybe the trauma is just too much to overcome? Maybe we barbarians have threatened the families of those who don't speak as we would have them speak? Maybe we told them we'd nuke them or something?

Assuming that the US oppression idea (above) is complete BS, which it is, why then do you think that they still have English as a co-official language? Maybe because they place some importance on it??? Just maybe??? And... after three centuries of Spanish, why do you think it is that it is not an official language and hardly even spoken???

As for having a language imposed upon me: I study languages (Spanish being one of them) because I enjoy languages, not because anyone told me I had to learn them. And what the hell do you mean by 'payback'? If you know me, tell me what I've personally done to anybody to be 'payed back for.' You're going to impose Spanish upon me why again? I took your parking spot at the grocery store? I took your favorite fishing spot? I butted in front of you in line at McDonalds? What???

 
Old 02-12-2009, 02:35 PM
 
Location: The Queen City
1,086 posts, read 1,614,161 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
The Philippines was under Spanish rule for around three centuries. How much Spanish do you hear there now? Very little. I lived there for around a month, and I heard Spanish not once--except by Hispanic military personnel from the US.

Now, once the Philippines broke the shackles of our Death Star, Darth Vader-like, tyrannical control after WWII, you would think that the country would do all it could to erase (as they seem to have done with Spanish) the language of heathens that we nasty, vile American pigs forced them to speak at gunpoint. Yet, you go there today, and they seem to speak the evil language of Satan of their own accord. Maybe the trauma is just too much to overcome? Maybe we barbarians have threatened the families of those who don't speak as we would have them speak? Maybe we told them we'd nuke them or something?

Assuming that the US oppression idea (above) is complete BS, which it is, why then do you think that they still have English as a co-official language? Maybe because they place some importance on it??? Just maybe??? And... after three centuries of Spanish, why do you think it is that it is not an official language and hardly even spoken???

As for having a language imposed upon me: I study languages (Spanish being one of them) because I enjoy languages, not because anyone told me I had to learn them. And what the hell do you mean by 'payback'? If you know me, tell me what I've personally done to anybody to be 'payed back for.' You're going to impose Spanish upon me why again? I took your parking spot at the grocery store? I took your favorite fishing spot? I butted in front of you in line at McDonalds? What???
So much anger. The Spaniards did rule The Philippines for 300 years, but after the Americans took over, we imposed English on them. Under the U.S. occupation and civil regime, English began to be taught in schools. By 1901, public education used English as the medium of instruction. Around 600 educators who arrived in that year replaced the soldiers who also functioned as teachers. The 1935 Constitution added English as an official language alongside Spanish. So yeah, it sounds to me like it was imposed. Not by choice. Easy on the anger buddy.
 
Old 02-12-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,059,948 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
LOL..are you suggestion that the US border patrol is going round up legal residents and send them to Spanish speaking countries such as Mexico?

Are you looking for a Hispanic free United States?
Yes, because to him, Hispanic culture is a deception on the "REAL" god fearing Americans, and a complete sham.

To him, the only good "'Hispanic'" is one who has denied the "sham" being passed off as "so-called" Hispanic "'Culture'"(notice I quote the quote marks).
 
Old 02-12-2009, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 25,082,860 times
Reputation: 3624
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
LOL..are you suggestion that the US border patrol is going round up legal residents and send them to Spanish speaking countries such as Mexico?

Are you looking for a Hispanic free United States?
You inferred the link between 'Hispanic' people as a group and illegal aliens--------not I.
 
Old 02-12-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,570 posts, read 4,973,126 times
Reputation: 6099
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
Wrong! English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language like Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, French, Catalan, Galician and Valencian. English and Spanish are as similar as Mandarin and Russian.
English is considered a Germanic language only because of its grammar structure. English vocabulary is actually as much French (historically) as it is English (historically). In 1066, the Normans (from what is now France) invaded southern England, bringing their French (of the time) with them. Since the government and aristocracy was largely French, much of our more 'sophisticated' English vocabulary is derived from French. So you see the more 'common' words and grammatical function words being similar to other Germanic languages (Norwegian, German, etc...), but many of our verbs, nouns, and government or aristocracy-related terms coming from French. There is also a lot of Latin-derived vocabulary in English.

That is why we have at least as much in common with French (a romance language) as we do other Germanic languages. From my experience with Norwegian, I can tell you that many of the little 'function words' in Norwegian are quite similar to English and the grammar/language structure is very close. But then on the other hand, if you've studied French, you will see that, although the grammar is quite different, many, many vocab words are obviously the words we use in English (with a different pronunciation, of course).

And... since Spanish is very close to French, we have much in common (in vocabulary) with Spanish, or at least much similarity.

As funny as it may sound, we don't even speak English. If you want to see 'real' English, take a look at what we call 'Old English.' Had the French not invaded England, our language of today would very likely be a variation of the Northern Germanic languages (Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Faroese, Icelandic). Listen to Icelandic or Swedish. That's about how we would be speaking had not French and Latin been so heavily infused into the 'mongrel' English language we now speak.


Your statement "English and Spanish are as similar as Mandarin and Russian" is way off. This is not even close to being true. Study some Russian and Chinese, and tell me that they are even in the same galaxy compared to the similarities between English and Spanish. English and Spanish are both Indo-European languages, which by default relates the two in structure, vocabulary, and phonetically. Russian and Chinese on the other hand are from different language family groups--Russian is in the Indo-European family, Chinese in the Sino-Tibetan. There is no structural relationship or vocabulary relationship. Russian grammar is far more complex than Chinese. And the phonetics of the two are worlds apart.
 
Old 02-12-2009, 02:57 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,570 posts, read 4,973,126 times
Reputation: 6099
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
So much anger. The Spaniards did rule The Philippines for 300 years, but after the Americans took over, we imposed English on them. Under the U.S. occupation and civil regime, English began to be taught in schools. By 1901, public education used English as the medium of instruction. Around 600 educators who arrived in that year replaced the soldiers who also functioned as teachers. The 1935 Constitution added English as an official language alongside Spanish. So yeah, it sounds to me like it was imposed. Not by choice. Easy on the anger buddy.
And, of course, Spanish was never imposed upon them, right? That could never happen--only 'we' do things like that.

I think you are missing the point: Why were they able to 'purge' Spanish, yet not purge English? Or, if they were able to purge either, why have they chosen to retain English? And if they have chosen to retain English, could it be that they place some value upon knowing it?
 
Old 02-12-2009, 02:59 PM
 
Location: The Queen City
1,086 posts, read 1,614,161 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
English is considered a Germanic language only because of its grammar structure. English vocabulary is actually as much French (historically) as it is English (historically). In 1066, the Normans (from what is now France) invaded southern England, bringing their French (of the time) with them. Since the government and aristocracy was largely French, much of our more 'sophisticated' English vocabulary is derived from French. So you see the more 'common' words and grammatical function words being similar to other Germanic languages (Norwegian, German, etc...), but many of our verbs, nouns, and government or aristocracy-related terms coming from French. There is also a lot of Latin-derived vocabulary in English.

That is why we have at least as much in common with French (a romance language) as we do other Germanic languages. From my experience with Norwegian, I can tell you that many of the little 'function words' in Norwegian are quite similar to English and the grammar/language structure is very close. But then on the other hand, if you've studied French, you will see that, although the grammar is quite different, many, many vocab words are obviously the words we use in English (with a different pronunciation, of course).

And... since Spanish is very close to French, we have much in common (in vocabulary) with Spanish, or at least much similarity.

As funny as it may sound, we don't even speak English. If you want to see 'real' English, take a look at what we call 'Old English.' Had the French not invaded England, our language of today would very likely be a variation of the Northern Germanic languages (Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Faroese, Icelandic). Listen to Icelandic or Swedish. That's about how we would be speaking had not French and Latin been so heavily infused into the 'mongrel' English language we now speak.


Your statement "English and Spanish are as similar as Mandarin and Russian" is way off. This is not even close to being true. Study some Russian and Chinese, and tell me that they are even in the same galaxy compared to the similarities between English and Spanish. English and Spanish are both Indo-European languages, which by default relates the two in structure, vocabulary, and phonetically. Russian and Chinese on the other hand are from different language family groups--Russian is in the Indo-European family, Chinese in the Sino-Tibetan. There is no structural relationship or vocabulary relationship. Russian grammar is far more complex than Chinese. And the phonetics of the two are worlds apart.
I am glad to see that in this nation where most people only want to speak English and force others to only speak it, at least one person has some knowledge of other languages.

Now regarding my comment about Spanish being as similar to English as Russian is to Mandarin, I was being sarcastic. Spanish is very different compared with English, and I know that Mandarin is way different to Russian. I know, I speak Mandarin, I'm half Chinese.

So over all, I am not sure what your point was, maybe you just wanted us to be impress with your knowledge about languages' history. Which still does not prove that you speak or have studied all those langueges in a conversational manner. Reading recipe books does not mean you are a good chef.
 
Old 02-12-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: The Queen City
1,086 posts, read 1,614,161 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
And, of course, Spanish was never imposed upon them, right?

I think you are missing the point. Here it is more clearly: Why were they able to 'purge' Spanish, yet not purge English? Or, if they were able to purge either, why have they chosen to retain English? And if they have chosen to retain English, could it be that they place some value upon knowing it?
I think you are the one missing the point. You are thinking in a linguistic way, which is irrelevant in this case. The Filipinos were conquered by the Spaniards, yes for 300 years. Then came the Americans, and we imposed our language on them, so they had to give up Spanish. Now, if the Chinese would invade the Philippines, then Mandarin would be the lingua franca in the archipelago and English would be gone. Language has no meaning in history.
 
Old 02-12-2009, 03:14 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,570 posts, read 4,973,126 times
Reputation: 6099
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
So over all, I am not sure what your point was, maybe you just wanted us to be impress with your knowledge about languages' history.
Yep, that was it. It's all about me. See... I'm American.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
Which still does not prove that you speak or have studied all those langueges in a conversational manner. Reading recipe books does not mean you are a good chef.
I do not speak all of those languages--I wish! I study language structure and speak a few to varying degrees. And you are right about the chef thing... a linguistics/grammar nerd studies the ingredients in the recipe and how to combine them rather than the finished product. I love talking languages (about them).
 
Old 02-12-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,570 posts, read 4,973,126 times
Reputation: 6099
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
I am glad to see that in this nation where most people only want to speak English and force others to only speak it, at least one person has some knowledge of other languages.
I'm sorry to keep re-quoting you; I swear that I'm not trying to attack you or pick fights. It's just that this particular quote is where I think much of the problem comes from.

It's not so much that English is being 'forced' on anyone. I am an absolute supporter of personal freedom; supposedly, our country stands for such. Speak whatever language you want (if it were up to me, we would all be speaking Norwegian or Icelandic--beautiful languages...). However, when you are in a nation that predominately speaks a given language, what is it that you would logically do? Would you not learn the spoken language in order to communicate with those around you? Doesn't that seem reasonable? The de facto language in the US is English. It's not really a 'force' thing. If you would like a thousand languages to be spoken here, then the function of language has ceased to exist--that of communication. If nobody understands each other, then that is a problem. Why is it so hard to see that it's easier for everyone here in the US to learn English than it is for everyone here in the US to learn a thousand languages? It's not that anyone (at least any reasonable person) wants you to stop speaking whatever you like; but I think a reasonable expectation is that you are able to speak English if you live here.

Now... that being said... if you want to talk about English being a 'global language,' that is another matter completely. This is something that I am vehemently opposed to--for many reasons: political, linguistic, socially, culturally, etc. BUT, if we are only talking about what's happening in THIS country, I think the previous paragraph is a fairly logical viewpoint.
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