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Old 02-15-2009, 10:22 AM
 
8,187 posts, read 7,919,953 times
Reputation: 2837

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
ArizonaBear I was implying that the hysteria surrounding the speaking of Spanish in this nation is being ratched up another notch. Some people in this sub forum sound like freaking Nazis with their rhetoric of they are taking over our nation & culture BS.
I wasn't talking about genocide against illegals either, you know what I meant. Spare me your indignation since I grew up around Jews in Miami and know their history very well.
You weren't 'implying', you were very clearly stating that American mental midgets bear a striking resemble to Nazis.
Man up and either defend your position or apologize for the unnecessary hyperbole.

The truth is that noone that I know of on this forum is against hearing a foreign language. What is pissing people off is the expectation primarily from illegal aliens that the English speaking citizens learn Spanish to accomadate them. People like the police, health care workers, social service agencies and governmental offices. Yeah -- that is more then a tad annoying -- can you not understand that point of view?

Personally, I would all immigrants are able to keep their native language alive....but not at the expense of learning English. Tell me MiamiRob, if you were to move to another country that spoke a language that you were not fluent in -- would you attempt to learn it? Or would you demand that the new country bend over backwards so that you will never have to learn your new countries language?

Again, it is not the language per se that is the problem, it is the refusal on the behalf of immigrants to learn the language of the US which is English.

 
Old 02-15-2009, 12:07 PM
 
197 posts, read 167,754 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Frankly: the USA may be better off cutting Puerto Rico loose and letting that island fend for itself. The alternative would be to mandate that English be the language for all government business with Spanish reserved for public health/safety needs only.

It ain't going to happen, Puert Rico will continue being a commonwealth of the US indefinetely. In fact Puerto Rico is the perfect example that Spanish culture thrives in the United States. In the decades that followed the occupation, the US attempted an all out attempt to change the language to english, but the Portorricans decided that english can be an excellent second language.
 
Old 02-15-2009, 12:11 PM
 
197 posts, read 167,754 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
How dare you insult the memory of the Holocaust!

Most of the Jews living in 1930's Germany were citizens of that nation unlike those criminals from SOB, etc. living illegally here in the USA.

Besides: I can safely say that most of us on this board have no desire to murder Mexican nationals simply because of their nationality----------we simply want them out of the USA.
I see the point of Miami Rob, the big difference is that tha nazis were the
majority, while in the US is a small minority of detached radicals that no one gives a damn for,
 
Old 02-15-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,178,893 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
I see the point of Miami Rob, the big difference is that tha nazis were the
majority, while in the US is a small minority of detached radicals that no one gives a damn for,
Thank god most of this country doesn't see illegal aliens as "criminally insane invaders".

1930s Germany is a good example of what happens to undesirables when extreme fringe group types end up leading the country.
 
Old 02-15-2009, 01:56 PM
 
8,187 posts, read 7,919,953 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Thank god most of this country doesn't see illegal aliens as "criminally insane invaders".

1930s Germany is a good example of what happens to undesirables when extreme fringe group types end up leading the country.
Illegal aliens by their very defination are criminal, and a case can certainly be made that they are 'invading'.

To try to make a connection between the fate of 6 million Jews and 20 illegal immigrants is inaccurate and yes -- insulting. It didn't work when pro illegal sympathsizers tried to tie slavery and illegals together, and it won't work with the holocaust and illegals.
If you think otherwise, you know nothing of history or of context. Unless you are really trying to equate the deportation of an illegal immigrant back to his home country to that of a Jewish child being gassed?
 
Old 02-15-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,178,893 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Illegal aliens by their very defination are criminal, and a case can certainly be made that they are 'invading'.

To try to make a connection between the fate of 6 million Jews and 20 illegal immigrants is inaccurate and yes -- insulting. It didn't work when pro illegal sympathsizers tried to tie slavery and illegals together, and it won't work with the holocaust and illegals.
If you think otherwise, you know nothing of history or of context. Unless you are really trying to equate the deportation of an illegal immigrant back to his home country to that of a Jewish child being gassed?
WHen people bring up the comparison, they are speaking on the attitude toward illegal aliens by an extreme minority, being comparable with the attitude toward Jews in Europe pre-Holocaust.
The Holocaust is an example of that attitude going too far and being acted on.
If something similar were to be executed on illegal aliens, it wouldn't matter what their "crime" was, or their citizenship, or how much they "irritate" people.

But there is definitely a case to compare the attitudes toward Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, and the attitudes toward illegal Mexican immigrants by the extreme few.

From the outlandish portrayal of a "horde" of evil subhumans who have no other goal in life other than to antagonize "good" Americans, the cruel stereotypes, the conspiracy theories, and all that other good stuff.

I'm sure there's people out there, and maybe in here, who wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of getting rid of all the illegals. At least one person has brought it up(without getting banned or anything like that, he's still around) more than once, with not many people trying too hard to criticize his idea.

Not to mention how many people who would love "shoot-to-kill" orders on the border, taking out women and children who would have the gall to come into this country illegally.

It's easier to justify something as horrible as a holocaust, when you can dehumanize the group. People are doing that on a constant basis with the Mexican illegals. They're not seen as individuals,as people.
 
Old 02-15-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,716 posts, read 5,661,317 times
Reputation: 6429
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
extreme fringe group types
There is undoubtedly an Ďextreme fringe groupí that hates an entire group of people for no more than their skin color, culture, or language. Personally, thatís completely alien to me. I will never understand that mentality--probably because it isnít a mentality but rather a lack of mentality.

On the other hand, there is a very large group of folks--myself included--who would like to see the laws of this land respected. We would also appreciate if we, as a people and culture, could be respected by those entering our nation--just as most of us would respect the culture of another country should we go to live in that country. I donít think it is unreasonable to expect immigrants to understand and respect our culture, have the ability to communicate in our language, and reside in our nation legally. Most of us are very welcoming of that. I would challenge those who feel it is an unreasonable expectation to offer a valid, logical argument against respect, communication, and legality.

I keep reading and hearing that our immigration laws, policies, and enforcement are overly harsh and unfair. Okay. Compare them to the immigration policies and enforcement of other nations and tell me how we compare. In this country, illegal immigrants have more available to them than naturalized citizens, legal residents, and native citizens. Is that the case in any other nation? Please show me a bulleted list of comparisons with other relevant policies from around the world. Enlighten me on how much easier it is to get into another nation, reside there illegally, and/or receive taxpayer funded healthcare, food, residence, transportation, legal rights, etc. Please show me the countries in which all of this is provided, other than the United States. I will immediate pack my bags and begin planning my change of residence. I will even respect them enough to learn their language.

There are several countries to which I have considered immigrating. In the countries I have researched, I can tell you that the immigration policies make it next to impossible to gain legal residency/citizenship. For the most part, they donít want immigrants unless said immigrant has higher education in a critically lacking field or skill within the country. As for illegal immigration, they donít screw around. If youíre found, you are deported immediately. If you come back, you go to jail. These other nations are obviously more serious about their laws than we hate-saturated yanks are.

For those of you who believe that our policies on immigration, residency, and illegal immigration enforcement are overly harsh, I ask that you prove to the rest of us that they are. Show us a side-by-side comparison to the policies from around the world. Also, as asked earlier, please provide a valid, logical (not emotional!) argument against respect, communication, and legality. If you can, who knows, maybe you will change some of our hateful minds.
 
Old 02-15-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,716 posts, read 5,661,317 times
Reputation: 6429
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
WHen people bring up the comparison, they are speaking on the attitude toward illegal aliens by an extreme minority, being comparable with the attitude toward Jews in Europe pre-Holocaust.
The Holocaust is an example of that attitude going too far and being acted on.
If something similar were to be executed on illegal aliens, it wouldn't matter what their "crime" was, or their citizenship, or how much they "irritate" people.

But there is definitely a case to compare the attitudes toward Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, and the attitudes toward illegal Mexican immigrants by the extreme few.

From the outlandish portrayal of a "horde" of evil subhumans who have no other goal in life other than to antagonize "good" Americans, the cruel stereotypes, the conspiracy theories, and all that other good stuff.

I'm sure there's people out there, and maybe in here, who wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of getting rid of all the illegals. At least one person has brought it up(without getting banned or anything like that, he's still around) more than once, with not many people trying too hard to criticize his idea.

Not to mention how many people who would love "shoot-to-kill" orders on the border, taking out women and children who would have the gall to come into this country illegally.

It's easier to justify something as horrible as a holocaust, when you can dehumanize the group. People are doing that on a constant basis with the Mexican illegals. They're not seen as individuals,as people.
Okay. You have some valid points. But tell me how horribly radical the idea is to simply fly or bus those who are in the country illegally out of the country and back to their legal place of residence? I'm talking real planes and busses, not similes rigged with gas nozzles. I mean, we've all ridden a bus or flown on an airliner at one point or another, right? Would that idea be overly harsh or holocaust-like?
 
Old 02-15-2009, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Southern England.
10,651 posts, read 6,638,015 times
Reputation: 18516
I'm late to this thread which is certainly a long one!

The original comment was about a man working for a company in Arizona being told he needed to learn Spanish.

It just reminded me of when I worked for a large American medical company. I was based in the UK but had to go to the German and French HQs.

English had to be spoken during any business discussions.

My wife has the same situation working now for her American company in all the countries she goes to throughout Europe and Asia.

Maybe these comments have been made throught this thread, but I'm not going through 75 pages!
 
Old 02-15-2009, 02:50 PM
 
8,972 posts, read 10,709,127 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
For those of you who believe that our policies on immigration, residency, and illegal immigration enforcement are overly harsh, I ask that you prove to the rest of us that they are. Show us a side-by-side comparison to the policies from around the world. Also, as asked earlier, please provide a valid, logical (not emotional!) argument against respect, communication, and legality. If you can, who knows, maybe you will change some of our hateful minds.
A reasonable request, but I doubt you'll get the 'feedback' you're looking for. For over a year now, many people on this forum have asked for comprisons such as you have...WHY America is harsh on immigrants, WHY we're war-like, WHY we've marginalized minorites, WHY America 'hates Muslims', and WHY, in many ways, we're a mean, unwelcoming, harsh society. In other words, if you're going to make these claims (and many do) to WHAT are you comparing us?

WHERE is the country that has 330 million people of every description, NO laws regulating religious affiliation, NO serious penalty for illegally entering the country, NO requirements as to loyalty, assimilation, or any OTHER behavior, NO official language, and NO definition as to what constitutes a "real" citizen,...yet is kind, inclusive, and 'welcoming' to any culture on the face of the earth, takes them ALL in, and makes them feel instantly 'at home'?

I don't think there IS such a place, but all I SEEM to get as an answer is "that is OTHER countries..we're not SUPPOSED to act like that, we're supposed to act BETTER. And we DO these things because 230 years ago, when we founded our society, we SAID we would. Other countries don't HAVE to be 'good', because they ever SAID they would".

Sounds to me like a 'circular argument', but that's mostly what I get. Perhaps you'll do better.....

Good luck in your search for answers...
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