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Old 02-16-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
WHen people bring up the comparison, they are speaking on the attitude toward illegal aliens by an extreme minority, being comparable with the attitude toward Jews in Europe pre-Holocaust.
The Holocaust is an example of that attitude going too far and being acted on.
Most opposition to illegal immigration is neither “extreme” nor the “minority” point of view. Don’t YOU ‘claim’ to oppose illegal immigration? Don’t others who incessantly argue on behalf of illegal aliens, also ‘claim’ to oppose illegal immigration? As such, one could maintain that the vast majority of both pro and anti posters on this forum “oppose” illegal immigration. Or, am I missing something?

Quote:
If something similar were to be executed on illegal aliens, it wouldn't matter what their "crime" was, or their citizenship, or how much they "irritate" people.
The operative word is “IF” -- which implies it hasn’t happened. This is all conjecture and hyperbole. IF illegal aliens were being rounded up and physically abused or gassed; IF illegal aliens were branded with a big IA on their foreheads, and consequently denied basic ‘human’ rights; IF illegal aliens were routinely being killed for simply being here; IF crosses were being burned on the lawns of illegal aliens, churches were being bombed, and men were being lynched on a regular basis, etc, etc. IF all of this were true, then, and only then, would we have a somewhat viable comparison to “extreme” hatred, be it Holocaust-related or otherwise.

However, the reality couldn’t be further from the truth. Illegal aliens are NOT being abused, let alone gassed. All attempts to even identify them as being illegal are met with scathing opposition. After all, it would be racist for school districts to identify illegal alien children to determine their impact on school budgets.

Quote:
But there is definitely a case to compare the attitudes toward Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, and the attitudes toward illegal Mexican immigrants by the extreme few.
Comparison? Hardly! I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. . . . these are THE MOST coddled ‘mistreated’ people in U.S. history. We provide them with a slew of tax-funded benefits -- from a K-12 education, to organ transplants. Every conceivable product, document, and signage is in Spanish. We provide their arrested criminals with legal representation, and pay for all court costs and incarceration. We even offer them mortgage and car loans without requiring verifiable income, employment, SSN, tax returns, or a credit history. Many legal residents of this country have been treated with far less humanity than illegal aliens who have absolutely no right to be here.

Quote:
From the outlandish portrayal of a "horde" of evil subhumans who have no other goal in life other than to antagonize "good" Americans, the cruel stereotypes, the conspiracy theories, and all that other good stuff.
This is more hyperbole. Most folks opposed to illegal immigration do not consider them to be “subhuman,” and you know it. Furthermore, how many people are necessary for you to consider it a “horde?” Obviously, 20+ million isn’t enough.

Quote:
I'm sure there's people out there, and maybe in here, who wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of getting rid of all the illegals. At least one person has brought it up(without getting banned or anything like that, he's still around) more than once, with not many people trying too hard to criticize his idea.

Not to mention how many people who would love "shoot-to-kill" orders on the border, taking out women and children who would have the gall to come into this country illegally.

It's easier to justify something as horrible as a holocaust, when you can dehumanize the group. People are doing that on a constant basis with the Mexican illegals. They're not seen as individuals,as people.
Again; when people are “dehumanized” they don’t illegally cross a border 9 months pregnant, and summarily receive ‘free’ prenatal care. When people are dehumanized, they don’t receive preferential treatment for subsidized housing. When people are dehumanized, they don’t receive 3 heart transplants while legal residents languish and die while waiting for organs. If anyone is being “dehumanized” it is U.S. taxpayers who are forced to tolerate and bankroll this BS.

 
Old 02-16-2009, 01:11 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,625,689 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Most opposition to illegal immigration is neither “extreme” nor the “minority” point of view. Don’t YOU ‘claim’ to oppose illegal immigration? Don’t others who incessantly argue on behalf of illegal aliens, also ‘claim’ to oppose illegal immigration? As such, one could maintain that the vast majority of both pro and anti posters on this forum “oppose” illegal immigration. Or, am I missing something?



The operative word is “IF” -- which implies it hasn’t happened. This is all conjecture and hyperbole. IF illegal aliens were being rounded up and physically abused or gassed; IF illegal aliens were branded with a big IA on their foreheads, and consequently denied basic ‘human’ rights; IF illegal aliens were routinely being killed for simply being here; IF crosses were being burned on the lawns of illegal aliens, churches were being bombed, and men were being lynched on a regular basis, etc, etc. IF all of this were true, then, and only then, would we have a somewhat viable comparison to “extreme” hatred, be it Holocaust-related or otherwise.

However, the reality couldn’t be further from the truth. Illegal aliens are NOT being abused, let alone gassed. All attempts to even identify them as being illegal are met with scathing opposition. After all, it would be racist for school districts to identify illegal alien children to determine their impact on school budgets.



Comparison? Hardly! I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. . . . these are THE MOST coddled ‘mistreated’ people in U.S. history. We provide them with a slew of tax-funded benefits -- from a K-12 education, to organ transplants. Every conceivable product, document, and signage is in Spanish. We provide their arrested criminals with legal representation, and pay for all court costs and incarceration. We even offer them mortgage and car loans without requiring verifiable income, employment, SSN, tax returns, or a credit history. Many legal residents of this country have been treated with far less humanity than illegal aliens who have absolutely no right to be here.



This is more hyperbole. Most folks opposed to illegal immigration do not consider them to be “subhuman,” and you know it. Furthermore, how many people are necessary for you to consider it a “horde?” Obviously, 20+ million isn’t enough.



Again; when people are “dehumanized” they don’t illegally cross a border 9 months pregnant, and summarily receive ‘free’ prenatal care. When people are dehumanized, they don’t receive preferential treatment for subsidized housing. When people are dehumanized, they don’t receive 3 heart transplants while legal residents languish and die while waiting for organs. If anyone is being “dehumanized” it is U.S. taxpayers who are forced to tolerate and bankroll this BS.
Wish I'd made these points. I doubt you'll get much feedback; not because these aren't EXCELLENT points, but because they ARE...
 
Old 02-16-2009, 06:08 PM
 
43 posts, read 45,964 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Most opposition to illegal immigration is neither “extreme” nor the “minority” point of view. Don’t YOU ‘claim’ to oppose illegal immigration? Don’t others who incessantly argue on behalf of illegal aliens, also ‘claim’ to oppose illegal immigration? As such, one could maintain that the vast majority of both pro and anti posters on this forum “oppose” illegal immigration. Or, am I missing something?



The operative word is “IF” -- which implies it hasn’t happened. This is all conjecture and hyperbole. IF illegal aliens were being rounded up and physically abused or gassed; IF illegal aliens were branded with a big IA on their foreheads, and consequently denied basic ‘human’ rights; IF illegal aliens were routinely being killed for simply being here; IF crosses were being burned on the lawns of illegal aliens, churches were being bombed, and men were being lynched on a regular basis, etc, etc. IF all of this were true, then, and only then, would we have a somewhat viable comparison to “extreme” hatred, be it Holocaust-related or otherwise.

However, the reality couldn’t be further from the truth. Illegal aliens are NOT being abused, let alone gassed. All attempts to even identify them as being illegal are met with scathing opposition. After all, it would be racist for school districts to identify illegal alien children to determine their impact on school budgets.



Comparison? Hardly! I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. . . . these are THE MOST coddled ‘mistreated’ people in U.S. history. We provide them with a slew of tax-funded benefits -- from a K-12 education, to organ transplants. Every conceivable product, document, and signage is in Spanish. We provide their arrested criminals with legal representation, and pay for all court costs and incarceration. We even offer them mortgage and car loans without requiring verifiable income, employment, SSN, tax returns, or a credit history. Many legal residents of this country have been treated with far less humanity than illegal aliens who have absolutely no right to be here.



This is more hyperbole. Most folks opposed to illegal immigration do not consider them to be “subhuman,” and you know it. Furthermore, how many people are necessary for you to consider it a “horde?” Obviously, 20+ million isn’t enough.



Again; when people are “dehumanized” they don’t illegally cross a border 9 months pregnant, and summarily receive ‘free’ prenatal care. When people are dehumanized, they don’t receive preferential treatment for subsidized housing. When people are dehumanized, they don’t receive 3 heart transplants while legal residents languish and die while waiting for organs. If anyone is being “dehumanized” it is U.S. taxpayers who are forced to tolerate and bankroll this BS.
You can make a thousand cases that are in fact excemption to the rule, to claim like you do, that migrant workers receive preferential treatment, is quite cynical, lately I've read from some of the posters, that it is the migrant worker's fault our current chaotic economic situation, come on guys get real....
 
Old 02-16-2009, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by boricuita View Post
You can make a thousand cases that are in fact excemption to the rule, to claim like you do, that migrant workers receive preferential treatment, is quite cynical, lately I've read from some of the posters, that it is the migrant worker's fault our current chaotic economic situation, come on guys get real....
It is not “cynical” to speak the truth. Can you justify EVER offering benefits to illegal aliens while U.S. citizens must wait?

Quote:
Quote:
Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a third in 1998, each paid for by the state.

Puente's case highlights two controversial issues: Should illegal immigrants receive liver transplants in the U.S. and should taxpayers pick up the cost?

The average cost of a liver transplant and first-year follow-up is nearly $490,000, and anti-rejection medications can run more than $30,000 annually, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which oversees transplantation nationwide.

Donor livers are also in scarce supply. In California, nearly 3,700 people are on a waiting list for livers, according to the network. Last year, 767 liver transplants were performed in the state.
Immigration debate hits home for liver transplant patients - Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-liver13apr13,0,6444372.story - broken link)

Quote:
The media's bias on immigration was on display in the coverage of the "teenager" who got a botched heart-lung transplant. Eventually, she became an "immigrant" and then a "Mexican immigrant." But she was really an illegal alien smuggled into the United States. The information was initially withheld or played down for obvious reasons. Journalists fear there could be a public backlash to illegal aliens getting medical care in the U.S. and contributing to the soaring cost of health care coverage. This case was even more sensitive because American citizens are on the waiting list for the organs that this illegal alien received.
Organ Transplants For Illegal Aliens

Quote:
Untold thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing at a time when hundreds of thousands of citizens and legal residents are stuck waiting years for a spot.

While there are no hard numbers on illegal immigrants in public housing, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development reports that 29,570 people — 0.4 percent of all those in federally funded housing — are "ineligible noncitizens."
Newsvine - Many illegal immigrants live in public housing
 
Old 02-16-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,650,644 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by boricuita View Post
You can make a thousand cases that are in fact excemption to the rule, to claim like you do, that migrant workers receive preferential treatment, is quite cynical, lately I've read from some of the posters, that it is the migrant worker's fault our current chaotic economic situation, come on guys get real....
No: You get real: we owe illegal aliens nothing outside of a one way trip back to their homelands.

Got it?
 
Old 02-16-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,404 posts, read 10,009,260 times
Reputation: 9144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It is not “cynical” to speak the truth. Can you justify EVER offering benefits to illegal aliens while U.S. citizens must wait?



Immigration debate hits home for liver transplant patients - Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-liver13apr13,0,6444372.story - broken link)



Organ Transplants For Illegal Aliens



Newsvine - Many illegal immigrants live in public housing
Hey hey HEY!!! Would you stop introducing logic and reality? Neither is relevant.

Last edited by ChrisC; 02-16-2009 at 08:09 PM..
 
Old 02-16-2009, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Hey hey HEY!!! Would you stop introducing logic and reality? Neither is relevant.
Please forgive me. I keep forgetting. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Old 02-16-2009, 11:55 PM
 
67 posts, read 85,348 times
Reputation: 28
"Migrant workers". Thats an interesting term. Would that mean that they go back to there home countries periodically or do they just stay here and assume a new identity, fake SS#, or better yet use yours?
 
Old 02-17-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,979,836 times
Reputation: 5929
"Migrant Workers" was a term used for the Mexican workers that worked the fields in Calif in the 50's.

They worked the strawberry fields etc in Oxnard and stayed in large dorms just east of Oxnard Blvd.

Believe the term period was three months and then they returned to Mexico wher another crew would take their place (rotation would be the word) that worked well.
 
Old 02-17-2009, 04:11 PM
 
238 posts, read 655,708 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
The main problem with Puerto Rico and its people is that it has an identity crisis. They say they are Hispanics, but they are not an independent nation, rather a leech sucking on the USA's lending hand. They say they are US citizens, but display their flag every where they live. By the way, the PR flag was copied from the Cuban flag. “On June 12, 1892, Vélez was at his apartment at 219 Twenty-Third Street in Manhattan, when he stared at a Cuban flag for a few minutes, and then took a look at the blank wall in which it was being displayed. Vélez suddenly perceivedan optical illlusion, in which he perceived the image of the Cuban Flag with the colors in the flag's triangle and stripes inverted. Almost immediately he visited a nearby merchant, Domingo Peraza, from whom he bought some crepe paper to build a crude prototype.”

A few more things that might help understand their identity crisis:

In their original national anthem, they make reference to Cuba twice, how they should be more like the Cubans and expel the imperialists (the Spanish crown back then). They claim salsa is PR, right, and no one has ever heard of Celia Cruz (Cuba's Queen of salsa). And something even more demining, the PR flag was illegal to display up to 1951 by the US government. “On December 10, 1898, Puerto Rico was annexed by the United States under the terms of the Treaty of Paris of 1898 as a result of the Spanish American war. From 1898 to 1952 it was considered a felony to display the Puerto Rican flag in public; the only flag permitted to be flown on the island was the flag of the USA”. In my honest opinion, if they are so proud of their nation, they should all go back to PR and stay there.
Oh My God.....Spot on brother. Let me add something else to what you just said. They feel superior, in their own way, to the rest of Hispanics. They won't admit it, but it comes out in every instance. Of course, no nationality can surpass the Argentinians in arrogance, but they are sure right behind. In addition, Puerto Ricans born on U.S. soil, the ones we already refered to, are the ones affected the most by this social dilema. The ones born in the Island, however, tend to be more humble in general terms.

On a different note, Puerto Rico has experienced a countless amount of referendums to decide their independence, but each and everytime the outcome leans towards remaining part of the Commonwealth because of economic reasons. Sort of like a 35 year old man living at his mom's house.

Last edited by Amazonas; 02-17-2009 at 04:20 PM..
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