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Old 08-16-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,219 posts, read 11,250,720 times
Reputation: 3847

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
What I saw was a peaceful demonstration except for maybe knocking the American flag out of the guy in the truck's hand. Last I checked, such a demonstration is legal and really quite American.

Do you know why these people were marching? Your blanket assumptions are questionable at best and potentially put you beyond ignorant...and not in a good way.

BTW, all this legality applies if they are legal. If not then all bets are off.

There was nothing peaceful with all of the hooping and hollaring. And it was the illegals doing it. Did you not hear the juan's nasty language getting bleeped??? Yikes.

I am not ignorant, to say the least. You on the other hand appear as a supporter to their disrespect of this country and their foul, lewd mouths.
If that is the case, you are no better than they are.

They do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, they are disgusting. Anyone who was here legally wouldn't be acting like that, with that degree of arrogance. They know what it is like to be here and work for it.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: square thing with a roof
894 posts, read 949,993 times
Reputation: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
A couple rednecks in Texas lynched one Black man in 1999 and it made national headlines for two years. An illegal Latino kills 3 Black students and it's out of the headlines in a week.

I guess since Justice Ginsburg said abortion was needed to control "unwanted peoples" (aka Blacks) I guess the Liberal media was happy that 3 Blacks died. It'll save the gov't on abortion costs.
That's just sick. Attitudes like that make me feel ill and disgusted. I have many, many black friends. In fact, my first husband was half black.

People get too caught up in the color of someone's skin. They don't seem to realize that skin color doesn't matter, it's just window dressing for the soul.

A person can be a devil wrapped in white skin as much as a person can be an angel wrapped in black skin.

It's what's in a person's heart, mind, and soul that matters, and nothing else.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:15 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
Reputation: 898
Default The letter of the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
There was nothing peaceful with all of the hooping and hollaring. And it was the illegals doing it. Did you not hear the juan's nasty language getting bleeped??? Yikes.

I am not ignorant, to say the least. You on the other hand appear as a supporter to their disrespect of this country and their foul, lewd mouths.
If that is the case, you are no better than they are.

They do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, they are disgusting. Anyone who was here legally wouldn't be acting like that, with that degree of arrogance. They know what it is like to be here and work for it.
By peaceful, legally, I think they mean nonviolent. Profanity is not my cup of tea but what does that prove? Unfortunately, it really isn't illegal to cuss. And "hooping and hollaring", last I checked are not illegal either.

Your responses are obviously emotionally charged and perhaps a reflection of a larger set of circumstances. I see no proof, based on this video alone, that these people are illegal or that they are supporting only illegals. But that appears to be your blanket assumption of all "juans" as you put it. That remark in itself is very telling...

Now as far as your suggesting that I support these people...Apparently, I choose to be more careful in my assessment of what I saw than yourself. That does not mean I support these people or that I support amnesty for illegals or for that matter, am soft on immigration. Your responses appear to be close minded and perhaps equally bigoted. That goes beyond ignorance into something quite worse. I would say but I don't want to upset the OP and / or break forum rules.

We need clear minds to deal with issues such as immigration. Hopefully clear minds will lead to clear objectives and perhaps clear laws. I do not believe your would qualify here. And to be fair, I am not sure I do either. The issue of immigration is complex and the more I read, the more I learn.

What we don't need is people lumping all Mexicans living here in the USA, in the lazy, profanity spouting juan, illegal category. Are you in that group?

BTW, the only way I might say I was better than those people is if they truly were all illegal. Then I could say that I am legal and they are not and could conclude I was better in that sense and no other. I don't have enough info. here to say that though.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:47 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
By peaceful, legally, I think they mean nonviolent. Profanity is not my cup of tea but what does that prove? Unfortunately, it really isn't illegal to cuss. And "hooping and hollaring", last I checked are not illegal either.

Your responses are obviously emotionally charged and perhaps a reflection of a larger set of circumstances. I see no proof, based on this video alone, that these people are illegal or that they are supporting only illegals. But that appears to be your blanket assumption of all "juans" as you put it. That remark in itself is very telling...

Now as far as your suggesting that I support these people...Apparently, I choose to be more careful in my assessment of what I saw than yourself. That does not mean I support these people or that I support amnesty for illegals or for that matter, am soft on immigration. Your responses appear to be close minded and perhaps equally bigoted. That goes beyond ignorance into something quite worse. I would say but I don't want to upset the OP and / or break forum rules.

We need clear minds to deal with issues such as immigration. Hopefully clear minds will lead to clear objectives and perhaps clear laws. I do not believe your would qualify here. And to be fair, I am not sure I do either. The issue of immigration is complex and the more I read, the more I learn.

What we don't need is people lumping all Mexicans living here in the USA, in the lazy, profanity spouting juan, illegal category. Are you in that group?

BTW, the only way I might say I was better than those people is if they truly were all illegal. Then I could say that I am legal and they are not and could conclude I was better in that sense and no other. I don't have enough info. here to say that though.
Except this isn't about "immigration" it is about illegal aliens violating our laws and sovereignty. I think our laws are pretty clear on that and also our objectives for having them. There is nothing complex about legal immigration.

I agree that all Mexicans shouldn't be lumped together either as some are here legally and some are not. You know I hear the same rhetoric from many pro-illegals that Americans are lazy, rednecks, etc. to justify the presence of illegals in our country. I think there is enough flame throwing on each side however they don't represent the majority of either side so why dwell on them? I find that most of the people like in that video are pro-illegals rather than illegals themselves.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Miami / Florida / U.S.A.
684 posts, read 1,255,004 times
Reputation: 469
That was staged.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Back in the early 90's Japan and the USA were having some trade disputes. I owned a Toyota pick up. I work in a factory. As 1 might imagine my truck seemed to get a lot of unwanted attention. Bent antenna and flat tires. American flag bumper stickers on my windshield etc.
Friendly protest? Obviously I didn't think so.
The guys with the flags were driving by. Maybe they shouted a rebuttal to the protestors slogans. The protestor who grabbed the flag and threw it to the ground crossed the line. Not because it was our flag, but because it wasn't his property to grab and throw to the ground.
They chanted demanding respect and yet demonstrated none.
How I feel it applies to my story.
Some said I was at fault for driving my truck to work at a factory knowing how many felt about Japan. As if somehow this antagonized the vandals.
I get how the vandals felt. Misplaced loyalty to detroit and ignorance about the fact that my truck was at least as American as the average chevy dodge or ford of the day. In fact maybe more so. At least mine was assembled here by US citizens. Not true of the domestic trucks of the day. Mexico and Canada built theirs.
The protestors have a right to their protest. That right ended when they attacked someone elses property.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:15 PM
 
61 posts, read 58,514 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
Do you know why these people were marching?
This is an old video from the stink stirred up at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill Ca. You can get the beginning of the story here Morgan Hill Students Wearing U.S. Flag Shirts Sent Home - cbs5.com (http://cbs5.com/education/american.flag.shirts.2.1677973.html - broken link)

There was a couple days where they roamed Main Ave between the high school and city hall and then from the high school to i believe one of the city parks down Monterey Ave. They got pretty unruly during their "peaceful march" there was reports of the crowd throwing water bottles and other objects at passing cars and an instance at a local gas station where they harassed one of the customers

I grew up in that town and went to that high school... its a shame on how it turned out
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:17 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Except this isn't about "immigration" it is about illegal aliens violating our laws and sovereignty. I think our laws are pretty clear on that and also our objectives for having them. There is nothing complex about legal immigration.

I agree that all Mexicans shouldn't be lumped together either as some are here legally and some are not. You know I hear the same rhetoric from many pro-illegals that Americans are lazy, rednecks, etc. to justify the presence of illegals in our country. I think there is enough flame throwing on each side however they don't represent the majority of either side so why dwell on them? I find that most of the people like in that video are pro-illegals rather than illegals themselves.
My old friend. How have you been?

Let me clarify my take on this...This thread of posts, at least mine, came from the video that was described as Man Attacked for waiving American flag- caught on tape...The tape does not clarify the premise of these people's intentions. That premise is being assumed by many on this thread and their assumption appears to be the same as yours...the conduct of illegal aliens and / or their supporters. IMO, that is only an assumption.

Prior to that, the thread is illegal immigration. And the complexities I mention come largely in the form of the ability of certain people to interpret the amendments and laws to suit their needs.

That being said, the people in this video may well indeed be legals supporting illegals. The reality is that it was probably a mix of these. If we knew their status for sure, it would be a lot more productive to argue it as such. However, I don't see, based on the video alone, any real proof of this. Therefore, I choose not to assume it.

Now, this video aside, if you asked me my opinion on illegal immigration (which I emphatically do not support), I'm sure we could have a lengthy discussion. Until then...
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:21 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talent70 View Post
This is an old video from the stink stirred up at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill Ca. You can get the beginning of the story here Morgan Hill Students Wearing U.S. Flag Shirts Sent Home - cbs5.com (http://cbs5.com/education/american.flag.shirts.2.1677973.html - broken link)

There was a couple days where they roamed Main Ave between the high school and city hall and then from the high school to i believe one of the city parks down Monterey Ave. They got pretty unruly during their "peaceful march" there was reports of the crowd throwing water bottles and other objects at passing cars and an instance at a local gas station where they harassed one of the customers

I grew up in that town and went to that high school... its a shame on how it turned out
Thanks for the update. None of that was clear or could be inferred from the clip offered here.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:32 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,749 times
Reputation: 898
Default Some additional thoughts...

The aforementioned article about Morgan Hill Students sent home because they were wearing USA garb on Cinco de Mayo and the administration wanted to avoid a conflict...

"The parents of the five boys said the school's decision was un-American.

"You can't just single out these five. It doesn't work that way. That's not what America is about," said Julie Fagerstrom."

It is an essential part of being American to be able to express oneself without fear of government reprisal. However, common sense tells us there are good / productive ways to get results and bad ones too. I used the example of the wearing the Charger uniform in enemy Raider territory. Certainly legal but questionable from a common sense point of view. Imagine going into Crip territory with Blood colors (these are gang references for those of you who don't know) to see the reaction. Again legal but definately not recommended. You may die in such scenarios but at least you'll be behaving legally. Imagine going to the Gay Pride Parade in San Fransisco and shouting out anti-gay sentiments. Again legal but certainly and obviously risky. Or in the case of this video...riding along in a car waving an American flag while Mexicans marched with their flags. You are within your legal rights to do so but aren't you asking for trouble?

If my neighbor burns the flag in protest, I have a few choices. I can go forcefully stop him or her which will likely include some illegality or I can fly an even larger flag as my statement. Each choice will have varying results and consequences.
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