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Old 08-21-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
As I have said, in order to best evaluate the claims from the Kenyan government and from Zeituni Oyango, bring in an expert on Kenya's affairs who can determine which side is right and which side is wrong.



1. If deporting her effectively means she suffers from a painful, debilitating disease for life or dies from a painful, debilitating disease, the government would be directly responsible for her suffering. "Luckily" for her, her disease means she likely won't be deported. However, if one can prove she is a scam artist, she can always be thrown into prison.
2. My point is that our national attention should not be unduly focused on an unusual case like Zeituni Zoyango. It can focus on more common and typical welfare scams, and it can focus on forms of waste that are more significant and/or affect more people.
3. In government one must focus on the most significant or most pressing issues, because the time and money used to push forward efforts are limited. If there is a case of widespread, significant, large-scale waste, you pursue that and leave insignificant, small waste issues alone unless you have enough resources to pursue all cases of waste.

Report: Wal-Mart*to charge shoplifters who steal $25 or more - Jul. 13, 2006
Wal-Mart in 2006 announced that it will only press charges against shoplifters who steal $25 or more. This is so it can focus on employees and professional shoplifters, who cause the most damage to the chain - The same principle can be used when trying to weed out governmental waste



Depends on the medical problem. In most cases a disease won't stop the illegals from being deported, as most diseases can be treated in their home countries. Guillain-Barré is very rare. While it may "protect" Zeituni Oyango from deportation, it is also very rare and isn't likely to show up. "And, why should taxpayers support her?" they are the best party to do so. We would like Oyango to pay for the care herself, but she doesn't have any money. We would like Kenya to pay for it, but Kenya can't be forced to send a time. Her family doesn't have to pay either. The only entity that is left is the taxpayer.

It's just like with Abdulmutallab. He himself doesn't have money. His dad doesn't want to pay his legal bills. So the only entity left is the taxpayer.

But the taxpayer effect is not significant, because Guillain-Barré is rare.
She ignored deportation orders, and should not be rewarded. Clearly, none of her relatives in Kenya have been harmed, so why investigate a non-issue?

If she’s incarcerated, taxpayers will still be burdened. Why not simply return her to Kenya? We are discussing this woman due to her relationship to the president. However, there are millions of illegals in similar situations receiving tax-funded medical care. They are overwhelming our healthcare systems, and are instrumental in the closings of hospitals and clinics. Due to illegal immigration, the indigent residents of Atlanta are now without a dialysis facility which had served their community for over 100 years. How is that fair to them? Why should U.S. citizens be deprived life-saving treatment simply because too many illegals are abusing the system?

I don’t believe our attention can ever be “unduly” focused on ANY illegal alien, because NONE of them should be here. For every illegal receiving treatment, there is a U.S. citizen being deprived, and U.S. taxpayers are footing the bill. In my opinion, ALL illegal immigration tax-funded benefits can be classified as “waste” -- each and every penny.

I don’t care if her disease is rare, and I don’t care if she can’t receive adequate treatment in Kenya. If that makes me callous, so be it. I am sick of illegal immigration, and I am sick of our country being used. Her condition may be rare, but budget deficits associated with medical treatment for illegal aliens most assuredly are not. We can’t be the world’s piggy bank, and we can’t be the world’s healthcare system. Let other countries pick up the slack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Farm subsidies are a de facto form of welfare. Rural "welfare" programs are not the types of welfare programs you see in the city. Agriculture subsidies and government jobs are "welfare" to otherwise non-viable communities.

On our country, the overall effect of subsidized housing for illegals in some states is smaller than the effect of rural welfare programs. The effect of illegals using subsidized housing may be more of a problem for individual states, but those states also have to consider their role in the federal government's scheme of taxation and subsidization
You cannot compare farm subsidies, welfare, subsidized housing, or any benefits or services being provided to citizens of this country to those offered illegal aliens. We may have a moral obligation to help needy citizens, but we have no obligation to provide for foreign interlopers. Many illegals come to this country to avail themselves of our generous tax-funded benefits. We should deny ALL benefits, with the exception of bona fide life-saving emergency care. Once stabilized, they should be repatriated. As long as we allow ourselves to be THE dumping ground for other countries, we will continue to have millions entering this country illegally.

I’m sorry, but we can no longer afford to support illegal aliens. If their countries of origin are ill-equipped to treat their illnesses or provide a decent life, that’s unfortunate, but it’s NOT our problem.
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Old 08-21-2010, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
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Strangely enough, those applying to be LEGAL imigrants have to pass a medical and can be and often ARE denied a visa because it is felt they or a family member have a medical condition which will be "a drain on the USA". Why then is it supposed to be "okay" for those here illegally to as Benicar said "drain our medical system".

If Obama's aunt had been a person applying to enter the USA as a legal immigrant her medical condition would have BARRED her from being granted a visa.

It seems for the illegals apologists it only goes one way - THEIRS.
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:50 PM
 
4,269 posts, read 7,885,000 times
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It's the government's responsibility because nobody else can be forced to do it, and the government cannot torture her as a punishment (deporting her would be in effect causing her to be tortured from Guillain-Barre). It is the government's responsibility because no better solution exists.

"I am a Vet with cancer yet the gov isn't paying my bills nor is it awarding me special treatment." - In all likelihood you have a better option, such as insurance or savings taking care of you. There is no better option for Zeituni Oyango.

"Many Vets out their are on their knees and need help. Shouldn't we be focused on helping our own first?" - Under most circumstances, yes. We do not have to admit a person who wants medical care into our country. We cannot take care of everyone. However a "perfect storm" happened and because Zeituni Oyango is here now and because Kenya can't treat her, she gets medical care.

"This woman is Kenya's responsibility not ours." - We would love to send her off to Kenya, that is, if Kenya had the facilities to treat the disease.

If/when Kenya is able to care for her disease, then we can send her off.

While drops can add up, government do have to put a priority on the most significant issues affecting spending first. Once the more significant and costly issues are resolved, then we can do after the drops. If the smaller drops are all inter-related, we could check and see if a bunch of "drops" could be eliminated at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
Strangely enough, those applying to be LEGAL imigrants have to pass a medical and can be and often ARE denied a visa because it is felt they or a family member have a medical condition which will be "a drain on the USA". Why then is it supposed to be "okay" for those here illegally to as Benicar said "drain our medical system".

If Obama's aunt had been a person applying to enter the USA as a legal immigrant her medical condition would have BARRED her from being granted a visa.

It seems for the illegals apologists it only goes one way - THEIRS.
Opyelie: That's right. The government can prevent people from coming to get medical treatment. Then it is a case of omission, the government not allowing the person to be here.

Zeituni Oyango was already here, and in likelihood she developed the disease while in the states. Oyango's case is different because she is here already.

The solution is to wait for Kenya to get the facilities to treat her disease, then Oyango can be shipped off. And if she is a scammer, she can always spend time in an American prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
She ignored deportation orders, and should not be rewarded. Clearly, none of her relatives in Kenya have been harmed, so why investigate a non-issue?

If she’s incarcerated, taxpayers will still be burdened. Why not simply return her to Kenya? We are discussing this woman due to her relationship to the president. However, there are millions of illegals in similar situations receiving tax-funded medical care. They are overwhelming our healthcare systems, and are instrumental in the closings of hospitals and clinics. Due to illegal immigration, the indigent residents of Atlanta are now without a dialysis facility which had served their community for over 100 years. How is that fair to them? Why should U.S. citizens be deprived life-saving treatment simply because too many illegals are abusing the system?

I don’t believe our attention can ever be “unduly” focused on ANY illegal alien, because NONE of them should be here. For every illegal receiving treatment, there is a U.S. citizen being deprived, and U.S. taxpayers are footing the bill. In my opinion, ALL illegal immigration tax-funded benefits can be classified as “waste” -- each and every penny.

I don’t care if her disease is rare, and I don’t care if she can’t receive adequate treatment in Kenya. If that makes me callous, so be it. I am sick of illegal immigration, and I am sick of our country being used. Her condition may be rare, but budget deficits associated with medical treatment for illegal aliens most assuredly are not. We can’t be the world’s piggy bank, and we can’t be the world’s healthcare system. Let other countries pick up the slack.



You cannot compare farm subsidies, welfare, subsidized housing, or any benefits or services being provided to citizens of this country to those offered illegal aliens. We may have a moral obligation to help needy citizens, but we have no obligation to provide for foreign interlopers. Many illegals come to this country to avail themselves of our generous tax-funded benefits. We should deny ALL benefits, with the exception of bona fide life-saving emergency care. Once stabilized, they should be repatriated. As long as we allow ourselves to be THE dumping ground for other countries, we will continue to have millions entering this country illegally.

I’m sorry, but we can no longer afford to support illegal aliens. If their countries of origin are ill-equipped to treat their illnesses or provide a decent life, that’s unfortunate, but it’s NOT our problem.
1. We don't want to reward her. Hence, my suggestion of prison. She may be staying in the USA, but who wants to be in prison, where her entertainment is severely restricted, where her movements and what she can see are restricted? She won't enjoy being here while she is behind bars.

2. I don't see Zeituni Oyango working, so I don't see how she will be able to be productive outside of prison. If she is imprisoned, we are already paying for her anyway, but she will also be punished for her fraud.

"Due to illegal immigration, the indigent residents of Atlanta are now without a dialysis facility which had served their community for over 100 years. How is that fair to them? Why should U.S. citizens be deprived life-saving treatment simply because too many illegals are abusing the system?" - I believe that local and state governments rightly should find a way to weed out garden variety abuses of medical facilities which do add up to expenses. Oyango's condition is a different animal from the widespread burdening of health system; the former is just an unfortunate case of an illegal contracting a rare disease - the latter is a systemic problem that needs to be fixed (involving diseases and ailments humans frequently get - stuff that is treatable in their home countries).

As for the Atlanta thing - I'd like to see an article about that - I would like to see how and why it closed and how illegals factor into all of that.

4. While American citizens do benefit from stuff like farm subsidies and government jobs, those subsidies and jobs cost taxpayers far more than the few illegals who develop Guillain-Barre (See above of why I am not including garden variety healthcare issues with illegals) - I am not disputing the idea that in general healthcare on illegals (healthcare involving common diseases and diseases treatable in other countries) is a more significant issue than farm subsidies and rural gov't jobs. I am saying that cases of illegals developing rare diseases untreatable in their home countries are less significant than taxation issues involving Americans like farm subsidies.

Last edited by Vicman; 08-22-2010 at 10:00 PM..
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:15 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,066 posts, read 30,586,259 times
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Open borders, in a taxed welfare state, is a recipe for disaster, on a grand economical scale.
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:57 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
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Kick her out, she hasn't told the truth yet, why are we listening now.
Kick ALL the illegals out. We are paying 30,000,000 leeches. Let them
go back where they belong.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
As for the Atlanta thing - I'd like to see an article about that - I would like to see how and why it closed and how illegals factor into all of that.

Here's one link - I'm sure you'll be able to find a lot of info on it with a google search.......

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/he...y/21grady.html
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
It's the government's responsibility because nobody else can be forced to do it, and the government cannot torture her as a punishment (deporting her would be in effect causing her to be tortured from Guillain-Barre). It is the government's responsibility because no better solution exists.

We would love to send her off to Kenya, that is, if Kenya had the facilities to treat the disease.

If/when Kenya is able to care for her disease, then we can send her off.
A lack of treatment options in Kenya was not the reason she petitioned for asylum. Rather, she claims her life would be in imminent danger due to tribal violence, which clearly it would not, as evidenced by her numerous relatives living in Kenya without incident. Therefore, her medical condition is irrelevant.

Furthermore, please post the law which mandates our government (taxpayers) to provide long-term treatment for diseases for illegal aliens. The law only requires “emergency” treatment be offered to all, but there is no law which “forces” us to treat illegal aliens suffering from chronic illnesses.

Torture? How would this woman be “tortured” if returned to Kenya? Would she be the only person in the country suffering from Guillain-Barre? Would they deny her their available treatment due to her relationship with Obama? Again, she is a citizen of Kenya who was ordered deported from the US. In flagrant defiance, she ignored deportation orders. Permitting her to remain in this country is indeed rewarding her for willfully violating our laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
While drops can add up, government do have to put a priority on the most significant issues affecting spending first. Once the more significant and costly issues are resolved, then we can do after the drops. If the smaller drops are all inter-related, we could check and see if a bunch of "drops" could be eliminated at the same time.
This is an estimate of the current ANNUAL costs to taxpayers for Obama’s aunt to remain in this country. Mind you, this does not include costs for welfare, food stamps, and subsidized housing. Remember, she is unable to work. This is hardly a “drop” in the bucket.

Quote:
The costs in the United States related to Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS) have been estimated as $110,000 for direct health care and $360,000 in lost productivity per patient.
National Guideline Clearinghouse | Practice parameter: immunotherapy for Guillain-Barre syndrome: report of the Quality Standards Subcommittee of the American Academy of Neurology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Zeituni Oyango was already here, and in likelihood she developed the disease while in the states. Oyango's case is different because she is here already.
ALL illegal aliens are “already here.” Does that mean we should allow all to stay? I’m not following your logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
The solution is to wait for Kenya to get the facilities to treat her disease, then Oyango can be shipped off. And if she is a scammer, she can always spend time in an American prison.

1. We don't want to reward her. Hence, my suggestion of prison. She may be staying in the USA, but who wants to be in prison, where her entertainment is severely restricted, where her movements and what she can see are restricted? She won't enjoy being here while she is behind bars.
2. I don't see Zeituni Oyango working, so I don't see how she will be able to be productive outside of prison. If she is imprisoned, we are already paying for her anyway, but she will also be punished for her fraud.
How would taxpayers benefit from incarcerating this woman, given that we would not only be burdened with the incarceration costs, but also the costs associated with her long-term treatment for Guillain Barre? We are already footing the bills for her welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing, and medical care. If she is unable to work, she will be a tax burden for the remainder of her life. Moreover, receiving medical treatment for her disease, access to cable TV, library privileges, and three meals per day without having to lift a finger to perform “work” is a far cry from punishment.

If she can’t be “productive” outside prison, how on earth would she be productive behind bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
I believe that local and state governments rightly should find a way to weed out garden variety abuses of medical facilities which do add up to expenses. Oyango's condition is a different animal from the widespread burdening of health system; the former is just an unfortunate case of an illegal contracting a rare disease - the latter is a systemic problem that needs to be fixed (involving diseases and ailments humans frequently get - stuff that is treatable in their home countries).
Please provide proof of this “different animal.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
As for the Atlanta thing - I'd like to see an article about that - I would like to see how and why it closed and how illegals factor into all of that.
Quote:
Grady's attempt, driven by financial desperation, to close its kidney dialysis unit, which loses millions, mostly because of uncompensated care from the illegal, uninsured, and under-insured:

Hospital officials estimate that two-thirds of the outpatient clinic’s roughly 90 patients are illegal immigrants.

And, by the way, a continued influx of poor and uninsured illegals will cripple any "health care reform" that might be enacted in Washington.
The Grady Memorial Hospital Snapshot: CBO Numbers, Immigrants, Indigent Care, and The Future of Health Care Reform - Wellsphere


To show their appreciation for having received millions in tax-funded dialysis treatment, the ingrate illegals sued Grady Hospital.

Quote:
The lawsuit was filed on behalf of about 50 patients who are needy illegal immigrants.

The patients and advocates said the closing of the clinic violated their constitutional right to the health care service. The patients also asserted that the closure represented medical abandonment.

But the judge agreed with the hospital that these patients did not have either a state or federal constitutional right to outpatient dialysis service, and that Grady was not legally bound to provide it.
Judge: Grady dialysis lawsuit will be dismissed *| ajc.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
4. While American citizens do benefit from stuff like farm subsidies and government jobs, those subsidies and jobs cost taxpayers far more than the few illegals who develop Guillain-Barre (See above of why I am not including garden variety healthcare issues with illegals) - I am not disputing the idea that in general healthcare on illegals (healthcare involving common diseases and diseases treatable in other countries) is a more significant issue than farm subsidies and rural gov't jobs. I am saying that cases of illegals developing rare diseases untreatable in their home countries are less significant than taxation issues involving Americans like farm subsidies.
Do you have data delineating the costs incurred by U.S. taxpayers for the treatment of “rare” diseases for illegal aliens? If not, what is the basis for your assertion? In any case, medical treatment for diseases, rare or otherwise, cannot be considered negligible by any estimation.

Again, why should U.S. taxpayers assume responsibility for the medical care/costs for illegal aliens? Why should people who are living in this country in violation of our laws be rewarded with tax-funded, long-term medical care and subsidized housing? The issue is not the availability of medical treatment in a given country. At issue is the illegal status of untold millions in this country, and the ensuing astronomical tax burden.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:19 PM
 
4,269 posts, read 7,885,000 times
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1. I am aware that the reason that she petitioned for asylum were the claims that she would be persecuted. Even so, this disease can be brought up as a factor, as it was in the trial: Judge: President Obama's Kenyan Aunt Zeituni Onyango Can Stay in U.S.

"Onyango suffers from the autoimmune disorder Guillain-Barre syndrome, her lawyers said, and two doctors testified on her behalf before Judge Leonard I. Shapiro."

Even if a law mandating treatment of chronic diseases untreatable in the home countries of illegals doesn't exist, lawyers can always use them as factors contributing to judges letting those illegals stay in the country.

2. "Torture? How would this woman be “tortured” if returned to Kenya? Would she be the only person in the country suffering from Guillain-Barre?"

Let's read the Mayo clinic's description of what the disease does: Guillain-Barre syndrome - MayoClinic.com

"In its most severe form, Guillain-Barre syndrome is a medical emergency requiring hospitalization. There's no known cure for Guillain-Barre syndrome" - No cure, meaning we can't cure Oyango of this disease. However "but several treatments can ease symptoms and reduce the duration of the illness. And most people do recover completely." Guillain-Barré Syndrome Fact Sheet: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/detail_gbs.htm - broken link) says "Most patients, however, recover from even the most severe cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, although some continue to have a certain degree of weakness."

Guillain-Barre syndrome: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com described some of the symptoms. I'm sure a deportation that would almost certainly lead to total paralysis would be a form of torture. Mayo Clinic doesn't say "Guillain-Barre syndrome is a serious disease that requires immediate hospitalization because of the rapid rate at which it worsens. The sooner appropriate treatment is started, the better the chance of a good outcome." for nothing. The NIH page says "These symptoms can increase in intensity until certain muscles cannot be used at all and, when severe, the patient is almost totally paralyzed. In these cases the disorder is life threatening - potentially interfering with breathing and, at times, with blood pressure or heart rate - and is considered a medical emergency. Such a patient is often put on a respirator to assist with breathing and is watched closely for problems such as an abnormal heart beat, infections, blood clots, and high or low blood pressure."

Mayo clinic says: "Luckily, Guillain-Barre syndrome is relatively rare, affecting only 1 or 2 people per 100,000."

Kenya has about 39,002,772 people... so according to this rate, about 390-780 people in the country would likely have the disease, and of them several may be receiving treatment abroad.

3. "ALL illegal aliens are “already here.” Does that mean we should allow all to stay? I’m not following your logic." - The point is that if someone wants to come over to the US to get treatment for a disease, the US can deny him/her from coming, and this would be an act of omission, not letting a person come.

But when the person is already here, then the government has to do an action to deport the person, therefore the government would have some direct responsibility for the person's fate.

4. Looking at the cost figure "The costs in the United States related to Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS) have been estimated as $110,000 for direct health care and $360,000 in lost productivity per patient." - I'm not factoring the lost productivity since Oyango doesn't work. While 110,000 looks like a sticker shock, Guillain-Barre is a 1-2 in 100,000 disease.

In 2003 the INS estimated that 7 million illegals were in the United States: CNN.com - INS: 7 million illegal immigrants in United States - Feb. 1, 2003 - The figure is 7 years old, but I'm just using it as a working figure since we don't know exactly how many illegals are in the US.

I don't know country-by-country figures, nor do I know exactly which countries have the facilities to treat Guillain-Barre and which ones don't. If one assumed that, say, 70 illegals had GB, and of them 15 came from countries that don't have facilities to treat GB, the total cost would be $1,650,000 for the governmental agencies per period.

5. "If she can’t be “productive” outside prison, how on earth would she be productive behind bars?" - Either way it costs us to have Oyango in our country, so we may as well punish her and force her to go to a prison hospital. Then her free world welfare housing would go to someone else.

6. "Please provide proof of this “different animal.” " - A one/two in 100,000 disease untreatable in some countries versus chronic healthcare issues involving many illegal immigrants in an area with common ailments and diseases... those are different animals. That is the proof... the one/two in 100,000.

I'll comment on the Grady issue (I put it in the "chronic healthcare issues involving many illegal immigrants in an area with common ailments and diseases" camp) in a different post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
A lack of treatment options in Kenya was not the reason she petitioned for asylum. Rather, she claims her life would be in imminent danger due to tribal violence, which clearly it would not, as evidenced by her numerous relatives living in Kenya without incident. Therefore, her medical condition is irrelevant.

Furthermore, please post the law which mandates our government (taxpayers) to provide long-term treatment for diseases for illegal aliens. The law only requires “emergency” treatment be offered to all, but there is no law which “forces” us to treat illegal aliens suffering from chronic illnesses.

Torture? How would this woman be “tortured” if returned to Kenya? Would she be the only person in the country suffering from Guillain-Barre? Would they deny her their available treatment due to her relationship with Obama? Again, she is a citizen of Kenya who was ordered deported from the US. In flagrant defiance, she ignored deportation orders. Permitting her to remain in this country is indeed rewarding her for willfully violating our laws.



This is an estimate of the current ANNUAL costs to taxpayers for Obama’s aunt to remain in this country. Mind you, this does not include costs for welfare, food stamps, and subsidized housing. Remember, she is unable to work. This is hardly a “drop” in the bucket.


National Guideline Clearinghouse | Practice parameter: immunotherapy for Guillain-Barre syndrome: report of the Quality Standards Subcommittee of the American Academy of Neurology.



ALL illegal aliens are “already here.” Does that mean we should allow all to stay? I’m not following your logic.



How would taxpayers benefit from incarcerating this woman, given that we would not only be burdened with the incarceration costs, but also the costs associated with her long-term treatment for Guillain Barre? We are already footing the bills for her welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing, and medical care. If she is unable to work, she will be a tax burden for the remainder of her life. Moreover, receiving medical treatment for her disease, access to cable TV, library privileges, and three meals per day without having to lift a finger to perform “work” is a far cry from punishment.

If she can’t be “productive” outside prison, how on earth would she be productive behind bars?



Please provide proof of this “different animal.”



The Grady Memorial Hospital Snapshot: CBO Numbers, Immigrants, Indigent Care, and The Future of Health Care Reform - Wellsphere


To show their appreciation for having received millions in tax-funded dialysis treatment, the ingrate illegals sued Grady Hospital.


Judge: Grady dialysis lawsuit will be dismissed *| ajc.com



Do you have data delineating the costs incurred by U.S. taxpayers for the treatment of “rare” diseases for illegal aliens? If not, what is the basis for your assertion? In any case, medical treatment for diseases, rare or otherwise, cannot be considered negligible by any estimation.

Again, why should U.S. taxpayers assume responsibility for the medical care/costs for illegal aliens? Why should people who are living in this country in violation of our laws be rewarded with tax-funded, long-term medical care and subsidized housing? The issue is not the availability of medical treatment in a given country. At issue is the illegal status of untold millions in this country, and the ensuing astronomical tax burden.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
1. I am aware that the reason that she petitioned for asylum were the claims that she would be persecuted. Even so, this disease can be brought up as a factor, as it was in the trial: Judge: President Obama's Kenyan Aunt Zeituni Onyango Can Stay in U.S.

"Onyango suffers from the autoimmune disorder Guillain-Barre syndrome, her lawyers said, and two doctors testified on her behalf before Judge Leonard I. Shapiro."

Even if a law mandating treatment of chronic diseases untreatable in the home countries of illegals doesn't exist, lawyers can always use them as factors contributing to judges letting those illegals stay in the country.

2. "Torture? How would this woman be “tortured” if returned to Kenya? Would she be the only person in the country suffering from Guillain-Barre?"

Let's read the Mayo clinic's description of what the disease does: Guillain-Barre syndrome - MayoClinic.com

"In its most severe form, Guillain-Barre syndrome is a medical emergency requiring hospitalization. There's no known cure for Guillain-Barre syndrome" - No cure, meaning we can't cure Oyango of this disease. However "but several treatments can ease symptoms and reduce the duration of the illness. And most people do recover completely." Guillain-Barré Syndrome Fact Sheet: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/detail_gbs.htm - broken link) says "Most patients, however, recover from even the most severe cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, although some continue to have a certain degree of weakness."

Guillain-Barre syndrome: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com described some of the symptoms. I'm sure a deportation that would almost certainly lead to total paralysis would be a form of torture. Mayo Clinic doesn't say "Guillain-Barre syndrome is a serious disease that requires immediate hospitalization because of the rapid rate at which it worsens. The sooner appropriate treatment is started, the better the chance of a good outcome." for nothing. The NIH page says "These symptoms can increase in intensity until certain muscles cannot be used at all and, when severe, the patient is almost totally paralyzed. In these cases the disorder is life threatening - potentially interfering with breathing and, at times, with blood pressure or heart rate - and is considered a medical emergency. Such a patient is often put on a respirator to assist with breathing and is watched closely for problems such as an abnormal heart beat, infections, blood clots, and high or low blood pressure."

Mayo clinic says: "Luckily, Guillain-Barre syndrome is relatively rare, affecting only 1 or 2 people per 100,000."

Kenya has about 39,002,772 people... so according to this rate, about 390-780 people in the country would likely have the disease, and of them several may be receiving treatment abroad.

3. "ALL illegal aliens are “already here.” Does that mean we should allow all to stay? I’m not following your logic." - The point is that if someone wants to come over to the US to get treatment for a disease, the US can deny him/her from coming, and this would be an act of omission, not letting a person come.

But when the person is already here, then the government has to do an action to deport the person, therefore the government would have some direct responsibility for the person's fate.

4. Looking at the cost figure "The costs in the United States related to Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS) have been estimated as $110,000 for direct health care and $360,000 in lost productivity per patient." - I'm not factoring the lost productivity since Oyango doesn't work. While 110,000 looks like a sticker shock, Guillain-Barre is a 1-2 in 100,000 disease.

In 2003 the INS estimated that 7 million illegals were in the United States: CNN.com - INS: 7 million illegal immigrants in United States - Feb. 1, 2003 - The figure is 7 years old, but I'm just using it as a working figure since we don't know exactly how many illegals are in the US.

I don't know country-by-country figures, nor do I know exactly which countries have the facilities to treat Guillain-Barre and which ones don't. If one assumed that, say, 70 illegals had GB, and of them 15 came from countries that don't have facilities to treat GB, the total cost would be $1,650,000 for the governmental agencies per period.

5. "If she can’t be “productive” outside prison, how on earth would she be productive behind bars?" - Either way it costs us to have Oyango in our country, so we may as well punish her and force her to go to a prison hospital. Then her free world welfare housing would go to someone else.

6. "Please provide proof of this “different animal.” " - A one/two in 100,000 disease untreatable in some countries versus chronic healthcare issues involving many illegal immigrants in an area with common ailments and diseases... those are different animals. That is the proof... the one/two in 100,000.

I'll comment on the Grady issue (I put it in the "chronic healthcare issues involving many illegal immigrants in an area with common ailments and diseases" camp) in a different post.
Bottom line: We are not legally nor morally obligated to provide long-term medical care for the chronic illnesses of illegal aliens, be they rare or otherwise. Immigration should benefit the host country. Thus, permitting infirmed illegals to remain in this country only serves to overwhelm our healthcare systems, and is an unnecessary burden on taxpayers. Had she not ignored her deportation orders, she would already be living in Kenya where she could receive the love and support of her family. Instead, she remains here fleecing taxpayers, while uninsured U.S. citizens languish. I simply do not understand how you can possibly support this.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:07 PM
 
660 posts, read 1,188,527 times
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Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
Hmmm...sounds like just one more self entitled leech (albeit well connected) with groundless claims re her refugee status. I agree, if her claims re asylum are not substantiated then she should be deported. I'm still trying to figure out how she managed to get into subsidised housing etc.
Like you said, she's "well connected". The rules seem to not apply for her.
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