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Old 08-19-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,854,828 times
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As we suspected, there is no threat. Obama’s aunt should be deported. She certainly shouldn’t remain in tax-funded housing.

Quote:
Nairobi — An aunt of President Barack Obama was allowed to stay in the United States on the shocking grounds that she would be persecuted by Kenyan leaders if she was forced to return to the country.

Justice and Constitutional Affairs minister Mutula Kilonzo described the claims as "ridiculous and an insult to Kenyans".

"President Obama's grandmother is here and she is treated like a royalty. It is unfortunate because Kenya enjoys cordial relations with the United States."
allAfrica.com: Kenya: Shame of Obama Aunt Asylum Files (http://allafrica.com/stories/201008190527.html - broken link)
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,987,343 times
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Hmmm...sounds like just one more self entitled leech (albeit well connected) with groundless claims re her refugee status. I agree, if her claims re asylum are not substantiated then she should be deported. I'm still trying to figure out how she managed to get into subsidised housing etc.
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Phoenix,Arizona
3,810 posts, read 4,538,532 times
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I like this part

"He wrote that because her US immigration status and relationship to the US president had been disclosed, Ms Zeituni "will be a target if she is removed to Kenya."

AND

The judge noted Ms Zeituni's acknowledgment that none of her many relatives in Kenya had suffered any harm.

This kinda leaves the door open for the rest of the Family
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: AZ
1,991 posts, read 3,081,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how she managed to get into subsidised housing etc.


Remember she's here in Mass. All you need to do is show up here with nothing and they'll take care of you!
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:26 AM
 
4,315 posts, read 7,929,742 times
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She has Guillain-Barré syndrome - Do the Kenyans have the facilities to treat that? Until they do...

Doing more research, the Huffington Post adds that the judge's decision was because of a leak: Zeituni Onyango Asylum Case: Boston Judge Granted Asylum Due To News Leak - "A judge who granted asylum to President Barack Obama's African aunt ruled she deserved to stay in the United States because a federal government official leaked her status to a news organization, making her a potential target for persecution in her native Kenya."

The article says: "Shapiro found that because Onyango's identity and status were disclosed, she would be a target in Kenya not only for those who oppose the United States and Obama but for members of the Kenyan government "who oppose President Obama's politics and/or his ethnicity, which the Respondent shares."" - There were tribal riots that engulfed Kenya not too long ago.

I don't know which ethnic group Zeituni's family is a part of, nor do I know its position in Kenyan society at the moment. It is probably true that her family historically didn't face any problems, but it may help to ask Kenyans (I don't mean the Kenyan government - I mean Kenyan people) and people familiar with Kenya to provide more insight into this.

Gixxer1K: Remember that the federal government gives subsidies to the rural farm industries, and state governments give a large per capita number of government jobs to rural areas. What Zeituni's getting is peanuts compared to what rural areas get.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,956,936 times
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Vicman how is Obama's Aunt's medical condition our responsibility?
2nd How does other forms of waste make it acceptable to waste still more on a person who was here illegally and in defiance of past court orders?
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:55 AM
 
35,121 posts, read 38,078,597 times
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Another known illegal immigrant who is receiving government benefits who does not deserve them.

What part of "Illegal" is not understood here? If I as an American Born American Citizen with American born parents and "Legal" immigrant Grandparents would even attempt to receive government benefits and lie when filling out the forms I can be prosecuted. Why are those who are blatantly breaking the law allowed to stay in this country?

I just don't understand why so many are willing to protect these people and I don't understand why this is such a debate.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,854,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
She has Guillain-Barré syndrome - Do the Kenyans have the facilities to treat that? Until they do...

Doing more research, the Huffington Post adds that the judge's decision was because of a leak: Zeituni Onyango Asylum Case: Boston Judge Granted Asylum Due To News Leak - "A judge who granted asylum to President Barack Obama's African aunt ruled she deserved to stay in the United States because a federal government official leaked her status to a news organization, making her a potential target for persecution in her native Kenya."

The article says: "Shapiro found that because Onyango's identity and status were disclosed, she would be a target in Kenya not only for those who oppose the United States and Obama but for members of the Kenyan government "who oppose President Obama's politics and/or his ethnicity, which the Respondent shares."" - There were tribal riots that engulfed Kenya not too long ago.

I don't know which ethnic group Zeituni's family is a part of, nor do I know its position in Kenyan society at the moment. It is probably true that her family historically didn't face any problems, but it may help to ask Kenyans (I don't mean the Kenyan government - I mean Kenyan people) and people familiar with Kenya to provide more insight into this.

Gixxer1K: Remember that the federal government gives subsidies to the rural farm industries, and state governments give a large per capita number of government jobs to rural areas. What Zeituni's getting is peanuts compared to what rural areas get.
I’m with tinman. Should we now grant asylum to every illegal with a medical problem? And, why should taxpayers support her? After all, she is the aunt of the POTUS. Do you think they checked the medical condition of the thousands of Africans deported in recent years? Of course not.

If Obama’s grandmother is in no danger, why on earth should his aunt suffer persecution, or fear for her safety? I would think they would target his dear granny before an aunt he claims to barely know.

I am a compassionate person, but this BS must stop. Isn’t it enough that we are providing illegals with tax-funded dialysis and organ transplants, while our own uninsured citizens are dying?

Vicman, how can you even compare farm subsidies for U.S. farmers to subsidized housing for an illegal alien?
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:50 PM
 
4,315 posts, read 7,929,742 times
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As I have said, in order to best evaluate the claims from the Kenyan government and from Zeituni Oyango, bring in an expert on Kenya's affairs who can determine which side is right and which side is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Vicman how is Obama's Aunt's medical condition our responsibility?
2nd How does other forms of waste make it acceptable to waste still more on a person who was here illegally and in defiance of past court orders?
1. If deporting her effectively means she suffers from a painful, debilitating disease for life or dies from a painful, debilitating disease, the government would be directly responsible for her suffering. "Luckily" for her, her disease means she likely won't be deported. However, if one can prove she is a scam artist, she can always be thrown into prison.
2. My point is that our national attention should not be unduly focused on an unusual case like Zeituni Zoyango. It can focus on more common and typical welfare scams, and it can focus on forms of waste that are more significant and/or affect more people.
3. In government one must focus on the most significant or most pressing issues, because the time and money used to push forward efforts are limited. If there is a case of widespread, significant, large-scale waste, you pursue that and leave insignificant, small waste issues alone unless you have enough resources to pursue all cases of waste.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/13/news...ters/index.htm
Wal-Mart in 2006 announced that it will only press charges against shoplifters who steal $25 or more. This is so it can focus on employees and professional shoplifters, who cause the most damage to the chain - The same principle can be used when trying to weed out governmental waste

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I’m with tinman. Should we now grant asylum to every illegal with a medical problem? And, why should taxpayers support her? After all, she is the aunt of the POTUS. Do you think they checked the medical condition of the thousands of Africans deported in recent years? Of course not.
Depends on the medical problem. In most cases a disease won't stop the illegals from being deported, as most diseases can be treated in their home countries. Guillain-Barré is very rare. While it may "protect" Zeituni Oyango from deportation, it is also very rare and isn't likely to show up. "And, why should taxpayers support her?" they are the best party to do so. We would like Oyango to pay for the care herself, but she doesn't have any money. We would like Kenya to pay for it, but Kenya can't be forced to send a time. Her family doesn't have to pay either. The only entity that is left is the taxpayer.

It's just like with Abdulmutallab. He himself doesn't have money. His dad doesn't want to pay his legal bills. So the only entity left is the taxpayer.

But the taxpayer effect is not significant, because Guillain-Barré is rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Vicman, how can you even compare farm subsidies for U.S. farmers to subsidized housing for an illegal alien?
Farm subsidies are a de facto form of welfare. Rural "welfare" programs are not the types of welfare programs you see in the city. Agriculture subsidies and government jobs are "welfare" to otherwise non-viable communities.

On our country, the overall effect of subsidized housing for illegals in some states is smaller than the effect of rural welfare programs. The effect of illegals using subsidized housing may be more of a problem for individual states, but those states also have to consider their role in the federal government's scheme of taxation and subsidization

Last edited by Vicman; 08-21-2010 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 08-21-2010, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,956,936 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
As I have said, in order to best evaluate the claims from the Kenyan government and from Zeituni Oyango, bring in an expert on Kenya's affairs who can determine which side is right and which side is wrong.



1. If deporting her effectively means she suffers from a painful, debilitating disease for life or dies from a painful, debilitating disease, the government would be directly responsible for her suffering. "Luckily" for her, her disease means she likely won't be deported. However, if one can prove she is a scam artist, she can always be thrown into prison.
2. My point is that our national attention should not be unduly focused on an unusual case like Zeituni Zoyango. It can focus on more common and typical welfare scams, and it can focus on forms of waste that are more significant and/or affect more people.
3. In government one must focus on the most significant or most pressing issues, because the time and money used to push forward efforts are limited. If there is a case of widespread, significant, large-scale waste, you pursue that and leave insignificant, small waste issues alone unless you have enough resources to pursue all cases of waste.

Report: Wal-Mart*to charge shoplifters who steal $25 or more - Jul. 13, 2006
Wal-Mart in 2006 announced that it will only press charges against shoplifters who steal $25 or more. This is so it can focus on employees and professional shoplifters, who cause the most damage to the chain - The same principle can be used when trying to weed out governmental waste



Depends on the medical problem. In most cases a disease won't stop the illegals from being deported, as most diseases can be treated in their home countries. Guillain-Barré is very rare. While it may "protect" Zeituni Oyango from deportation, it is also very rare and isn't likely to show up. "And, why should taxpayers support her?" they are the best party to do so. We would like Oyango to pay for the care herself, but she doesn't have any money. We would like Kenya to pay for it, but Kenya can't be forced to send a time. Her family doesn't have to pay either. The only entity that is left is the taxpayer.

It's just like with Abdulmutallab. He himself doesn't have money. His dad doesn't want to pay his legal bills. So the only entity left is the taxpayer.

But the taxpayer effect is not significant, because Guillain-Barré is rare.



Farm subsidies are a de facto form of welfare. Rural "welfare" programs are not the types of welfare programs you see in the city. Agriculture subsidies and government jobs are "welfare" to otherwise non-viable communities.

On our country, the overall effect of subsidized housing for illegals in some states is smaller than the effect of rural welfare programs. The effect of illegals using subsidized housing may be more of a problem for individual states, but those states also have to consider their role in the federal government's scheme of taxation and subsidization
I ask again why is her medical condition our Governments responsibility? Did we give her the disease?
I am a Vet with cancer yet the gov isn't paying my bills nor is it awarding me special treatment.
Many Vets out their are on their knees and need help. Shouldn't we be focused on helping our own first?
Do we not inprison criminals regardless of their pre-existing medical problems? Do we not hold them accountable?
This woman is Kenya's responsibility not ours.
I hear your point and can agree to a point. My point is that too many folks feel we should simply ignore the drops in the bucket spending. Well this nation is in a down poor and those buckets are over flowing.
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