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Old 06-26-2007, 10:06 PM
JD. JD. started this thread
 
Location: Oklahoma
198 posts, read 433,600 times
Reputation: 130

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Bruised but not broken, shaken but not stirred. Round two is underway and yet another cloture vote is set for Tuesday, from none other than our favorite Amnesty Senator Harry Reid.

The 'clay pigeon' tactic that Reid and McConnell cooked up to buy some votes has been released in a document that is over 300 pages long, yes some Senate staffers will be up late tonight trying to read it all before this is hurried through tomorrow. This document lays out the two dozen or so amendments that have been cherry-picked by Reid and McConnell to bring to the floor. A few of these amendments are very tough and some are very leniant, accepting even more illegals to get on the S.S. Amnesty Ship. Those may be bill killers and shatter support for this piece of shamnesty, which is a good thing.

However this all pans out, we have to keep the pressure on! Keep calling your Senators and letting them know this second cloture vote is the last chance they have to shoot this down and possibly keep their jobs come next election cycle.

I'm sure everyone has the numbers but here is the generic one I've been throwing out that will get you there just the same: 1-800-417-7666
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:12 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,053,512 times
Reputation: 382
I had a list of senators to call today and after staying on the phone all day I was only able to get through to three so I had to resort to email.
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:47 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,024,030 times
Reputation: 384
If we had more time, here's what I would suggest, let legal immigrants lead the opposition, and everyone else kind of follow their lead. The bottom line for me is respect for immigration. It is one of the most important bedrocks of our society, and if not for millions of anonymous immigrants looking for a better life, creating it, and sustaining it for future generations of native-born as well as immigrants, we would not be the rich nation we are today. So I think the campaign against this bill should revolve around 1) this previous statement, 1a) security of this nation, and 2) the practical reality that this is a nation and a world of limited resources, and American citizenship is not a right for everyone. It's a distinct privilege that requires consistent standards that are enforced (this kind of goes back to the respect issue). To honor legals you have to punish illegals. To create value in citizenship you need to demonstrate an appreciation for its value and preciousness. And the value in citizenship here is the protection it offers. And to earn the privilege of the protection of citizenship, everyone MUST submit themselves to the jurisdiction of this nation. And submission to the jurisdiction requires obedience of laws and rules. One says, I want your education, I want your opportunities, and I am willing to satisfy your concerns to receive it. I am willing to wait the requisit period of time. Pay the fees. Submit to background checks because I realize your protection is not my birthright. I will learn your history better than your complacent native-born citizens do. I will learn your language better. I will meet and pass every hurdle because citizenship in your country is worth it.

This is the American immigrant way. And opposition to amnesty should highlight and be based on this. I think that would affect the tone in a positive way, while not detracting too much from the omnipresent security issue. While security is extremely important (I put it 1a instead of 2), that topic breeds rhetoric that is alienating because, imo, it fuels fear, stereotypes, and prejudices on a visceral level that people may be so scared they possess them, they react in the opposite way that they want (they will either favor or be indifferent to this bill instead of oppose it).

But couch the debate in terms of legals vs. illegals (and allow the security aspect to slip in without as much highlight or fanfare) I think will make it much more likely to fail. The bill, not the opposition to the bill.

That's my position, anyway.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:02 PM
 
3,748 posts, read 7,213,486 times
Reputation: 4825
I am lost because there are so many things in your post. Are you for or against amnesty for illegals? The American immigrant way is: coming here legally.
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:46 AM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,735 times
Reputation: 1401
I don't think any of us are against legal immigration kabluey. We are against granting amnesty to illegal aliens. Illegal aliens hurt all Americans, including recently immigrated Americans.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:07 AM
 
52 posts, read 119,325 times
Reputation: 55
Honestly, I'm tired. I've phoned, faxed, emailed and snail mailed LOTS of senators repeatedly, not just mine. Yet this bill is still alive!
Since I live in TX, I've done the same with the governor and state reps and senators. I get polite little form letters from some of them but really, I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall!
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:58 AM
JD. JD. started this thread
 
Location: Oklahoma
198 posts, read 433,600 times
Reputation: 130
Just Kate, I hear you and I can't believe this has gotten as far as it has with all the public outcry. Makes you wonder if they really even care what their constituents think at all. If we keep up the phone calls, e-mail, faxes, or whatever they will eventually either listen or rip their phones, computers, and faxes out of the walls. At least we know, which ever way this sham goes, we did our best to stop it.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:55 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,024,030 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
I am lost because there are so many things in your post. Are you for or against amnesty for illegals? The American immigrant way is: coming here legally.

I'm sorry, I don't see what's confusing about it. Everything except the security issue I mentioned was framed in adamant promotion and support of legal immigration. Nothing in my language hints at support for outright amnesty for illegals. I don't know where you are inferring that. I take no language back. I'm against illegal immigration. It's a slap in the face of legals. Clear enough?
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:00 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,024,030 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by chele123 View Post
I don't think any of us are against legal immigration kabluey. We are against granting amnesty to illegal aliens. Illegal aliens hurt all Americans, including recently immigrated Americans.
I agree that most opponents of this bill are probably not opposed to legal immigration, and if you frame it in that way, they would be pro-legal immigration as much as they are in favor of other aspect of the immigration debate (in other words they are as pro-legal immigration as they are pro-security). I think the focus and tone of those against amnesty needs to be strategically assessed. A positive message can be made to defeat this bill. Not a fear-mongering one. But one that defends legal immigrants and preserves the security of this country.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:09 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,735 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
I agree that most opponents of this bill are probably not opposed to legal immigration, and if you frame it in that way, they would be pro-legal immigration as much as they are in favor of other aspect of the immigration debate (in other words they are as pro-legal immigration as they are pro-security). I think the focus and tone of those against amnesty needs to be strategically assessed. A positive message can be made to defeat this bill. Not a fear-mongering one. But one that defends legal immigrants and preserves the security of this country.
Yup, I think you would be right to say most are pro-security, at least, border security, and most support legal immigration.

So what is your idea for a positive message?
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