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Old 09-01-2010, 10:26 AM
 
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Opyelie, please don't use what my ancestors had to go through (slavery) to try and justify illegal immigration. It makes my blood boil when people try to use slavery and civil rights in the illegal immigration discussion.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
So basically, it's a "the sins of the father" situation then? Even though these kids had zero say in whether they were brought here illegally or not.
Do you think about the ramifications of even allowing millions of children to stay here? It's not all about bluebirds, blue skies, clouds and colorful marshmallows. We got and will continue to have financial issues in this country and illegal immigration is going to add to it. You have to look at the big picture, we have our own issues here, what sense does it make to be sympathetic to millions of people when we already have our own crime and poverty? We can't be admitting everyone. We have to start being blunt and sending people back to their country and making sure that they can never enter again without it being reviewed by Immigrations and approved.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post

I think I've been posting here long enough for my views on illegals to be well known.
I've been posting here a while and don't know your views.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:38 AM
 
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Oh yea, let's ask ourselves this question: if we went to a country illegally or overstayed our visa and we had a baby or child with us (who is also an undocumented person), what logic is it that says that child should be automatically legal or given special consideration? Who can force a nation (any nation) to do that?

Sounds to me as though the child should be held to the same requirements. What is the child going to do legally without their parent anyway?
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
In cases where the child was brought here as a minor by their parents entering the country illegally, should there be a special provision to allow them to gain legal status upon becoming 18?

Given that they really had very little if any say in the matter, it would seem fair.

I'm not talking about the so called Dream Act for illegals 18-34 - more a special visa process so that these kids who are here illegally through no fault of their own can become legal residents.

I'd rather reward someone in this position than the scum that come over as illegal adults to drop babies, suck up social services, take jobs and commit crimes.

Maybe a special visa with a prohibition on so called "chain migration" rights for a certain number of years? And to stop the "Dreamies" utilising it, have a time limit to apply - maybe only be eligible to apply from 3 months before they turn 18 to 3 months after.
No. No moreso than anyone else applying for citizenship. Get at the end of the line and do so from your (or parents') country of citizenship.

Why does the OP want to reward illegal occupiers regardless of the circumstances of their illegal entry?
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,948,309 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Opyelie, I generally agree with you, but I must disagree with this. I understand your position, but can you imagine how many people would enter this country illegally for the sole purpose of giving their children the “American Dream?”

It would be a MEGA magnet for illegal immigration. Some would even send their children alone to rid themselves of the responsibility. Even without chain migration, if we had a special provision for non-citizen minors, we would become a huge dumping ground for the impoverished children of the world. It would be a nightmare.

It’s unfortunate, but children often suffer due to the decisions of their parents. The fault lies with the parents who subject their children to their unlawful lifestyles. By rewarding the children, we essentially reward their parents for flagrantly violating our laws. If parents realize their lawless behavior will ultimately benefit their children, it will only serve as an incentive to violate our laws. We are already providing an expensive K-12 education, and in-state college tuition in many states. I think that is more than generous.

Do we really want to compare slavery to illegal immigration? Yes, slaves and their children had no choice. However, illegal alien parents most definitely have a choice, and they choose to ignore our laws. Selfishly, they involve their children. Is it fair to the children? Of course not. But, life is often unfair.

The only provision I would agree with would be to give the children an opportunity to return to the U.S. without penalty. They should be required to apply for visas just like other foreigners. Some will be admitted, while others will be denied; and rightly so.

The fact that they were brought here by their parents does not mean they are the caliber of immigrants we actually need in this country, as evidenced by their high teen pregnancy and dropout rates.
Thanks to the posters that gave well reasoned objections........okay, now for the disclaimer......they're not actually my views.

The whole subject of illegal children brought here by their parents came up in a discussion I was having with my daughter. Being that she was in the same position (albeit we came here legally, she was a minor when we came here) I could see her bias for their plight.

I had tried to tell her my reasons why I didn't think it was a good idea, but I thought I would throw it out there to this forum to get more responses than just my own.

Regardless of how they came to be here, it's NOT their country, and the blame and responsibility for their situation rests solely on their parents shoulders.

I do think your idea of giving them a dispensation from the no re-entry rule would be fair provided they leave of their own volition once they reach 18.

I am sickened by the constant demands from illegals and the despicable pandering to them by their advocates and OUR politicians and elected officials.

Sometimes one needs to play devil's advocate to clarify one's own views.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
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Opy:
I do know your stand point on illegal immigration.
That's why I'm confused.

This doesn't sound like you.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,948,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Opy:
I do know your stand point on illegal immigration.
That's why I'm confused.

This doesn't sound like you.
See above. I DO try to be fair minded and see both points of view of an argument. After the discussion with my daughter I was wondering if I was "missing something", if my views showed a lack of compassion, yada yada.

In her defence, she's as I said in the "same boat" having had not much say in whether she came here or not, and is young and being in the Pac NW doesn't see the issues as much as perhaps she would if we lived elsewhere.

If things keep on the way they are going here, one day perhaps she will see the injustice of illegals being here with no repercussions when it impacts her life and that of her children directly.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,203,701 times
Reputation: 4611
OK...I read your disclaimer.........I was going ask if you were using someone elses words.

Let your daughter read the responses.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:26 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,855,551 times
Reputation: 12719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
See above. I DO try to be fair minded and see both points of view of an argument. After the discussion with my daughter I was wondering if I was "missing something", if my views showed a lack of compassion, yada yada.

In her defence, she's as I said in the "same boat" having had not much say in whether she came here or not, and is young and being in the Pac NW doesn't see the issues as much as perhaps she would if we lived elsewhere.

If things keep on the way they are going here, one day perhaps she will see the injustice of illegals being here with no repercussions when it impacts her life and that of her children directly.
Ah, but it is impacting her life. She just may not understand how. Her school resources, medical wait times at ERs, social services, higher taxes to her parents which in turn reduces funds available for her health, welfare, education, recreation. Fewer citizens paying taxes when jobs are taken by illegals. Money funnelled South of the border leaving the US. Identity theft done by illegal to obtain SSN#'s, and the list goes on..........

Perhaps a lesson beginning with the Constitution is in order and an explaination to her how the 14th Amendment was enacted to deal with the citizenship of freed slaves. This is education she must not have received at school. Kids in general do not understand why life isn't fair and why there must be rules/laws.
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