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Old 09-09-2010, 10:55 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,319 times
Reputation: 23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Try reading the numerous stats in here to the contrary. It doesn't matter anyway as we are a nation of laws and we have immigration quotas for good reasons and they have all been mentioned in here numerous times also. Common sense and logic are other things that come into play on this issue.

chicagonut,

look you know youre right I feel you I swear I do, and I swear I am not communist, I am capitalist as me eating a nice big mac with my extra large french fries...lol just kidding

what I am saying is that the worlds problems are so great that the only way we can solve them is by thinking positive that we as a species can solve it and make in a hospitable place for everybody, not them we or everybody else.

we do need a rule of law forget history, the nation cannot take the worlds poor thats understood.

l (http://l - broken link)
Open Collections Program: Immigration to the US, Timeline

1808Importation of slaves into the United States is officially banned, though it continues illegally long after the ban.
1840sCrop failures in Germany, social turbulence triggered by the rapid industrialization of European society, political unrest in Europe, and the Irish Potato Famine (1845–1851) lead to a new period of mass immigration to the United States.

1862The Homestead Act provides free plots of up to 160 acres of western land to settlers who agree to develop and live on it for at least five years, thereby spurring an influx of immigrants from overpopulated countries in Europe seeking land of their own.

well as you can see in those times is not that america was an open society as it is now, america was a continent that was underpopulated with a lot of resources something it is not in todays standards.
I understand where you come from but if we do research all of the previous immigrants from
italy, ireland, england, germany were the ones that were in famine, poor, uneducated and america a continent that was rich in resources was for the taking of solidating the roots of capitalism , which was production and profits.

look the world has not changed now latin america, asia, africa, the middle east have the same problems, hunger, overpopulation, unemployment etc,

how can we prevent them? if the europeans did the same thing? not justifying the new immigrants because as we mention the early europeans were coming when america was for the taking after the genocide of the indians. the late immigrants have the same needs but the doors are no longer open.

business are really tempted for the
right to make profits, as a country of laws the problem does not reside outside of our borders,
in resides inside of them.

as long as we continue to be a corrupt society
these problems are going to prevail, and we cannot mention the poor immigrants needs,
they just want to come and escape the
future that prevails them if they stay.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:24 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,209 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Well you got one thing right. Illegal immigration is a burden to most Americans in this country. Couldn't argue with the rule of law though, could you? Really that is all that matters anyway.
The main point was economic burden. That's the argument. That's what most people contended (even via DM) was their largest gripe. As for rule of law, we have a precedent for changing laws that don't mesh well with the current situation. For example, DADT was a law that prevented gays in the military. We found out that this is highly contradictory to our interests and the current situation. Because of that, a federal judge in Riverside, CA changed the law. Laws change. If we later find that we need to tweak immigration laws to better serve our national interests (spend less money, gain more tax revenue, and not incite racial violence) then we will. Both sides will have to be heard in order to do so. A national dialogue will happen, IMO.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
chicagonut,

look you know youre right I feel you I swear I do, and I swear I am not communist, I am capitalist as me eating a nice big mac with my extra large french fries...lol just kidding

what I am saying is that the worlds problems are so great that the only way we can solve them is by thinking positive that we as a species can solve it and make in a hospitable place for everybody, not them we or everybody else.

we do need a rule of law forget history, the nation cannot take the worlds poor thats understood.

l (http://l - broken link)
Open Collections Program: Immigration to the US, Timeline

1808Importation of slaves into the United States is officially banned, though it continues illegally long after the ban.
1840sCrop failures in Germany, social turbulence triggered by the rapid industrialization of European society, political unrest in Europe, and the Irish Potato Famine (1845–1851) lead to a new period of mass immigration to the United States.

1862The Homestead Act provides free plots of up to 160 acres of western land to settlers who agree to develop and live on it for at least five years, thereby spurring an influx of immigrants from overpopulated countries in Europe seeking land of their own.

well as you can see in those times is not that america was an open society as it is now, america was a continent that was underpopulated with a lot of resources something it is not in todays standards.
I understand where you come from but if we do research all of the previous immigrants from
italy, ireland, england, germany were the ones that were in famine, poor, uneducated and america a continent that was rich in resources was for the taking of solidating the roots of capitalism , which was production and profits.

look the world has not changed now latin america, asia, africa, the middle east have the same problems, hunger, overpopulation, unemployment etc,

how can we prevent them? if the europeans did the same thing? not justifying the new immigrants because as we mention the early europeans were coming when america was for the taking after the genocide of the indians. the late immigrants have the same needs but the doors are no longer open.

business are really tempted for the
right to make profits, as a country of laws the problem does not reside outside of our borders,
in resides inside of them.

as long as we continue to be a corrupt society
these problems are going to prevail, and we cannot mention the poor immigrants needs,
they just want to come and escape the
future that prevails them if they stay.
The U.S. in 2010 is vastly different from the 1800’s. Why do you continue to dwell on the past? “When” immigrants arrived, “why” they came, “where” they came from, “who” they were, and “how” they arrived is irrelevant. We are also all aware of the corruption in our government; and the greed, power, and control of the corporate globalists. Thus, we don’t need a reminder on every thread.

Do you drive? If so, how far would you drive without causing an accident if you focused more on the image in the rearview mirror than the road ahead? Yes, we should remember the past, and ideally, learn from it. However, we cannot waste valuable time fixating on the past when we have a looming crisis.

Our country is imploding, and illegal immigration, albeit not the sole cause of our woes, is undeniably a major factor. Each day we hear of another multi-million/billion dollar illegal immigration expense borne by the taxpayers of this country. We simply can no longer afford to provide for millions of non-citizens.

You fail to understand, we are no longer the prosperous nation with ample funds to help the world. We are already robbing Peter to pay Paul. As much as we may want to help others, we can’t be their benefactor to the detriment of our own citizens. It’s time for illegals to return home, and fight for improvement in their own countries. Why do you believe we are obligated to provide for the impoverished of the world, when we can’t even provide for our own?
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:01 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,158,884 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The U.S. in 2010 is vastly different from the 1800’s. Why do you continue to dwell on the past? “When” immigrants arrived, “why” they came, “where” they came from, “who” they were, and “how” they arrived is irrelevant. We are also all aware of the corruption in our government; and the greed, power, and control of the corporate globalists. Thus, we don’t need a reminder on every thread.

Do you drive? If so, how far would you drive without causing an accident if you focused more on the image in the rearview mirror than the road ahead? Yes, we should remember the past, and ideally, learn from it. However, we cannot waste valuable time fixating on the past when we have a looming crisis.

Our country is imploding, and illegal immigration, albeit not the sole cause of our woes, is undeniably a major factor. Each day we hear of another multi-million/billion dollar illegal immigration expense borne by the taxpayers of this country. We simply can no longer afford to provide for millions of non-citizens.

You fail to understand, we are no longer the prosperous nation with ample funds to help the world. We are already robbing Peter to pay Paul. As much as we may want to help others, we can’t be their benefactor to the detriment of our own citizens. It’s time for illegals to return home, and fight for improvement in their own countries. Why do you believe we are obligated to provide for the impoverished of the world, when we can’t even provide for our own?
Excellent post, Benicar. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
The main point was economic burden. That's the argument. That's what most people contended (even via DM) was their largest gripe. As for rule of law, we have a precedent for changing laws that don't mesh well with the current situation. For example, DADT was a law that prevented gays in the military. We found out that this is highly contradictory to our interests and the current situation. Because of that, a federal judge in Riverside, CA changed the law. Laws change. If we later find that we need to tweak immigration laws to better serve our national interests (spend less money, gain more tax revenue, and not incite racial violence) then we will. Both sides will have to be heard in order to do so. A national dialogue will happen, IMO.
Contrary to pro-illegal propaganda, illegal immigration is a MASSIVE economic burden. How could it not be? We don’t need a national dialogue, or tweaking of our immigration laws to accommodate millions of foreign interlopers. We only need our current laws to be enforced. Why is that so hard to digest? Tell me, what will YOU personally gain from another amnesty?
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Excellent post, Benicar. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thanks.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,217,823 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The U.S. in 2010 is vastly different from the 1800’s. Why do you continue to dwell on the past? “When” immigrants arrived, “why” they came, “where” they came from, “who” they were, and “how” they arrived is irrelevant. We are also all aware of the corruption in our government; and the greed, power, and control of the corporate globalists. Thus, we don’t need a reminder on every thread.

Do you drive? If so, how far would you drive without causing an accident if you focused more on the image in the rearview mirror than the road ahead? Yes, we should remember the past, and ideally, learn from it. However, we cannot waste valuable time fixating on the past when we have a looming crisis.

Our country is imploding, and illegal immigration, albeit not the sole cause of our woes, is undeniably a major factor. Each day we hear of another multi-million/billion dollar illegal immigration expense borne by the taxpayers of this country. We simply can no longer afford to provide for millions of non-citizens.

You fail to understand, we are no longer the prosperous nation with ample funds to help the world. We are already robbing Peter to pay Paul. As much as we may want to help others, we can’t be their benefactor to the detriment of our own citizens. It’s time for illegals to return home, and fight for improvement in their own countries. Why do you believe we are obligated to provide for the impoverished of the world, when we can’t even provide for our own?
I couldn'nt have said it better if I tried.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:51 AM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 585,514 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
I couldn'nt have said it better if I tried.
I did try and failed miserably. Great post right to the point Benicar...
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:45 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,209 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Contrary to pro-illegal propaganda, illegal immigration is a MASSIVE economic burden. How could it not be? We don’t need a national dialogue, or tweaking of our immigration laws to accommodate millions of foreign interlopers. We only need our current laws to be enforced. Why is that so hard to digest? Tell me, what will YOU personally gain from another amnesty?
I like facts. I was a science major and a history minor. If the facts prove otherwise I'll easily concede. However, if top economists typically agree and their research is sound...I'll listen to what they have to say.

We do need a national dialogue. If not the we will continue down the divided street we're on.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I like facts. I was a science major and a history minor. If the facts prove otherwise I'll easily concede. However, if top economists typically agree and their research is sound...I'll listen to what they have to say.

We do need a national dialogue. If not the we will continue down the divided street we're on.
Please Google the costs of illegal immigration. Or, you can peruse the threads on this forum. Expert economists are also funded by the profiteers of illegal immigration, so their “findings” are suspect. In any case, their opinions can not refute the cold, hard facts.

Most citizens, both liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, oppose illegal immigration and amnesty. The “division” is orchestrated by those with a globalist, open borders agenda.
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