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Old 09-10-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
Reputation: 3083

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The U.S. in 2010 is vastly different from the 1800’s. Why do you continue to dwell on the past? “When” immigrants arrived, “why” they came, “where” they came from, “who” they were, and “how” they arrived is irrelevant. We are also all aware of the corruption in our government; and the greed, power, and control of the corporate globalists. Thus, we don’t need a reminder on every thread.

Do you drive? If so, how far would you drive without causing an accident if you focused more on the image in the rearview mirror than the road ahead? Yes, we should remember the past, and ideally, learn from it. However, we cannot waste valuable time fixating on the past when we have a looming crisis.

Our country is imploding, and illegal immigration, albeit not the sole cause of our woes, is undeniably a major factor. Each day we hear of another multi-million/billion dollar illegal immigration expense borne by the taxpayers of this country. We simply can no longer afford to provide for millions of non-citizens.

You fail to understand, we are no longer the prosperous nation with ample funds to help the world. We are already robbing Peter to pay Paul. As much as we may want to help others, we can’t be their benefactor to the detriment of our own citizens. It’s time for illegals to return home, and fight for improvement in their own countries. Why do you believe we are obligated to provide for the impoverished of the world, when we can’t even provide for our own?
Excellent post - I don't have the patience anymore to wade through the constant rehashing of what was and quoted "statistics" that purport to shore up their biased viewpoint.

Very good response.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:41 PM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,827 times
Reputation: 293
Califreeman, I'm not sure if you live in California based on your tag but i will assume you have lived here?

I am a Trauma/ER R.N. and have practiced in the Central Valley of California (where most of the crops come from) from Sacramento to Bakersfiled, and the San Joaquin Valley is engulfed with illegals. My main point here is that I have seen illegals abuse our medical system beyond comprehension. Never mind how rude some can get and their feeling of carte blanche, but thats not my point. They know how to work the system like you've never seen. Its not just the E.R. but the clinics too. WHO and I ask you WHO PAYS FOR IT?? And please don't insult my intelligence because I know EXACTLY where the money comes from, do you?

Last edited by Iluvmycountry; 09-10-2010 at 01:51 PM.. Reason: spelling.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:21 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
The main point was economic burden. That's the argument. That's what most people contended (even via DM) was their largest gripe. As for rule of law, we have a precedent for changing laws that don't mesh well with the current situation. For example, DADT was a law that prevented gays in the military. We found out that this is highly contradictory to our interests and the current situation. Because of that, a federal judge in Riverside, CA changed the law. Laws change. If we later find that we need to tweak immigration laws to better serve our national interests (spend less money, gain more tax revenue, and not incite racial violence) then we will. Both sides will have to be heard in order to do so. A national dialogue will happen, IMO.
Here is where you go wrong. You don't break the law just because it hasn't been changed to your liking YET.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:47 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Please Google the costs of illegal immigration. Or, you can peruse the threads on this forum. Expert economists are also funded by the profiteers of illegal immigration, so their “findings” are suspect. In any case, their opinions can not refute the cold, hard facts.

Most citizens, both liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, oppose illegal immigration and amnesty. The “division” is orchestrated by those with a globalist, open borders agenda.
Three words: argumentum ad populum. The majority of people in 1997 didn't support gay marriage (67%). However, the gap is narrowing. The fallacy is that just because a majority of people support something doesn't mean the facts support the same thing.

Expert economists are not usually funded by profiteers of illegal immigration. Esp. when the findings are very nuanced. I like to refer to peer reviewed articles. There findings aren't really suspect actually. Much of what you find by Google is inaccurate. Usually the metrics don't include contributions and thus the numbers are skewed.

I already stated that while the American household saw a net gain due to illegal immigration, the coffers of government saw a net loss. Again, most sites don't show how nuanced the argument is.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:48 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Here is where you go wrong. You don't break the law just because it hasn't been changed to your liking YET.
Umm...there are several historical precedents to contradict otherwise.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:57 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvmycountry View Post
Califreeman, I'm not sure if you live in California based on your tag but i will assume you have lived here?

I am a Trauma/ER R.N. and have practiced in the Central Valley of California (where most of the crops come from) from Sacramento to Bakersfiled, and the San Joaquin Valley is engulfed with illegals. My main point here is that I have seen illegals abuse our medical system beyond comprehension. Never mind how rude some can get and their feeling of carte blanche, but thats not my point. They know how to work the system like you've never seen. Its not just the E.R. but the clinics too. WHO and I ask you WHO PAYS FOR IT?? And please don't insult my intelligence because I know EXACTLY where the money comes from, do you?
I'm in SoCal. My best friend's uncle works as a hospital administrator (CFO) at Sharp in San Diego. He passed me a newsletter from ACHE (the American College of Health Care Executives). The largest percentage of people that don't pay are natives. Remember about 42% of illegal immigrants have healthcare. There are more uninsured Americans than uninsured illegal immigrants. It's statistically impossible, on the whole, that illegal immigrants are bankrupting healthcare. I will say that it is possible on a local level. Completely possible.

As for the rudeness, do you think that maybe you already categorized them as rude before dealing with them? Maybe you stereotyped them prior to meeting them. I received a DM about how said person simply don't like Hispanic illegal immigrants...they believed that Hispanic illegal immigrants were worse than Asian illegal immigrants. Basically it came down to a matter of preconceived notions.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:19 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
Umm...there are several historical precedents to contradict otherwise.
Not by illegal foreigners, however. They have no say in our laws and can't change them.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:30 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Not by illegal foreigners, however. They have no say in our laws and can't change them.
There have been historical precedents of foreigners changing laws. The biggest example is the Chinese Exclusion Act being overturned. Some of this was due to court cases by the Chinese (the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco rendered many legal immigrants to be illegal since paperwork was lost during the backdrop of this anti-Asian sentiment) were made. Cases like Chew Hong v. United States did help push the issue and ultimately the exclusion act was overturned.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
There have been historical precedents of foreigners changing laws. The biggest example is the Chinese Exclusion Act being overturned. Some of this was due to court cases by the Chinese (the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco rendered many legal immigrants to be illegal since paperwork was lost during the backdrop of this anti-Asian sentiment) were made. Cases like Chew Hong v. United States did help push the issue and ultimately the exclusion act was overturned.
"Foreigner or illegal immigrant"? Many immigrants have helped improve the United States, illegal immigrants? Not so much unless you are one of the wanna be "I wish I could own slaves" bunch.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:43 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
There have been historical precedents of foreigners changing laws. The biggest example is the Chinese Exclusion Act being overturned. Some of this was due to court cases by the Chinese (the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco rendered many legal immigrants to be illegal since paperwork was lost during the backdrop of this anti-Asian sentiment) were made. Cases like Chew Hong v. United States did help push the issue and ultimately the exclusion act was overturned.
I said "illegal" foreigners.
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