U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:31 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,329 times
Reputation: 46

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
There was nothing ideal about the years between 1965-2010, and nothing nostalgic about it, or to speak of concerning our immigration policies.

I'm saying that those years, as far as illegal migration is concerned, have not been America's best. Actually, we are now reaping what we sowed in 1965, and what we've continued to cultivate during the last 45 years. The full "harvest" however will most likely not come for another 25 years or so.
So you have another issue, you're looking at the extreme past. Essentially when people take such views as you do...they have two extreme views of history. One of an idealized past, or one of a Dystopian past. The period between 1965-2010 saw two of the greatest expansions of the American economy (the 1960s and the 1990s/2000s). Is that the harvest?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:48 AM
 
Location: deep in the south
233 posts, read 390,286 times
Reputation: 117
Pay a fine???!!!! And what would you do for all the others who wanted to immigrate and have had to wait for years because they followed the policies that are set up? Would you be the one to tell them "sorry chump, you wasted half your life and time on earth waiting, the ones who cared not enough for us to follow our laws get the golden prize of citizenship" I am really sorry that you disregard the people that follow the laws of the land and seem to deem them to be true idiots for having morals, you sure don't seem to have any problems dealing with peoples who have shown they don't have any buy their own actions. And before you go off on your rant about none of us here having the experience of poverty let me clue you in..........at one point homeless, I and my three children under the age of 5 were living during the winter snows up in the northeast in a barn with no electricity or water or heat, you don't know what cold is until you have lived it, you are not the only one here who knows and can understand how hard life can be, the majority of the people here I would hazard a guess have had rough times too. Your opinion seems to be that since we are Americans we were born with a platinum spoon in our mouths and that, I am here to tell you is pure BS........the difference between us and the illegals for the most part is that we took advantage of no one or no country to get to where we are now, and many of us are hanging on by a thread at this point in time and still we are expected to hand over the benefits we paid into for years of our work to pay for people scamming the system for all they can. I for one will never accept any kind of amnesty for them!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:55 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,329 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollies mom View Post
Pay a fine???!!!! And what would you do for all the others who wanted to immigrate and have had to wait for years because they followed the policies that are set up? Would you be the one to tell them "sorry chump, you wasted half your life and time on earth waiting, the ones who cared not enough for us to follow our laws get the golden prize of citizenship" I am really sorry that you disregard the people that follow the laws of the land and seem to deem them to be true idiots for having morals, you sure don't seem to have any problems dealing with peoples who have shown they don't have any buy their own actions. And before you go off on your rant about none of us here having the experience of poverty let me clue you in..........at one point homeless, I and my three children under the age of 5 were living during the winter snows up in the northeast in a barn with no electricity or water or heat, you don't know what cold is until you have lived it, you are not the only one here who knows and can understand how hard life can be, the majority of the people here I would hazard a guess have had rough times too. Your opinion seems to be that since we are Americans we were born with a platinum spoon in our mouths and that, I am here to tell you is pure BS........the difference between us and the illegals for the most part is that we took advantage of no one or no country to get to where we are now, and many of us are hanging on by a thread at this point in time and still we are expected to hand over the benefits we paid into for years of our work to pay for people scamming the system for all they can. I for one will never accept any kind of amnesty for them!
Read what I said. I stated that we should reform the system to make it quicker. Of course you didn't read what I said (you got emotional and ranted and raved instead). You've never went starving. You have internet. Also you were given WAY more public resources. So comparatively, yeah platinum spoon.

Which I will restate that if you truly are a "champion of the poor" wouldn't you want to improve conditions than promote policies that perpetuate and solidify wealth disparities? That would be hypocritical.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:55 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,250 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
So you have another issue, you're looking at the extreme past. Essentially when people take such views as you do...they have two extreme views of history. One of an idealized past, or one of a Dystopian past. The period between 1965-2010 saw two of the greatest expansions of the American economy (the 1960s and the 1990s/2000s). Is that the harvest?
The extreme past? My friend, 45 years is really not that long ago...LOL

You keep defining the illegal migration debate within the realm of economic gain (or loss). That's the problem. However it's not the answer.

It's akin to Bernie Madoff when he was unable to realize that he was riding a very hungry tiger, but needed to entertain the crowd for personal gain. The moment he realized that he was riding such a tiger, he tried to get off, but he realized that the tiger, as well as the crowd, would eat him alive if he did. So, he continues to ride the tiger, and appease the crowd, until the inevitable happens.

America = Bernie Madoff
Crowd = Corporate America
Tiger = Illegal Migrants

America will most likely continue to ride this tiger and entertain the crowd for the foreseeable future. Then comes the "harvest", getting off the tiger.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,231,784 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollies mom View Post
Pay a fine???!!!! And what would you do for all the others who wanted to immigrate and have had to wait for years because they followed the policies that are set up? Would you be the one to tell them "sorry chump, you wasted half your life and time on earth waiting, the ones who cared not enough for us to follow our laws get the golden prize of citizenship" I am really sorry that you disregard the people that follow the laws of the land and seem to deem them to be true idiots for having morals, you sure don't seem to have any problems dealing with peoples who have shown they don't have any buy their own actions. And before you go off on your rant about none of us here having the experience of poverty let me clue you in..........at one point homeless, I and my three children under the age of 5 were living during the winter snows up in the northeast in a barn with no electricity or water or heat, you don't know what cold is until you have lived it, you are not the only one here who knows and can understand how hard life can be, the majority of the people here I would hazard a guess have had rough times too. Your opinion seems to be that since we are Americans we were born with a platinum spoon in our mouths and that, I am here to tell you is pure BS........the difference between us and the illegals for the most part is that we took advantage of no one or no country to get to where we are now, and many of us are hanging on by a thread at this point in time and still we are expected to hand over the benefits we paid into for years of our work to pay for people scamming the system for all they can. I for one will never accept any kind of amnesty for them!
Arguing with this guy is like talking to a dead horse....You get the same thing in return every time... nothing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 01:00 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,329 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
The extreme past? My friend, 45 years is really not that long ago...LOL

You keep defining the illegal migration debate within the realm of economic gain (or loss). That's the problem. However it's not the answer.

It's akin to Bernie Madoff when he was unable to realize that he was riding a very hungry tiger, but needed to entertain the crowd for personal gain. The moment he realized that he was riding such a tiger, he tried to get off, but he realized that the tiger, as well as the crowd, would eat him alive if he did. So, he continues to ride the tiger, and appease the crowd, until the inevitable happens.

America = Bernie Madoff
Crowd = Corporate America
Tiger = Illegal Migrants

America will most likely continue to ride this tiger and entertain the crowd for the foreseeable future. Then comes the "harvest".
So 45 years ago was 10 seconds ago? It's not the past right? It's an extremist view of the past.

The problem is, you frame the debate in hyper nationalistic terms. You don't take into consideration any economic data. You haven't looked at any real social data.

It's not akin to Madoff. How could you even draw such a comparison? That's frankly idiotic. It really doesn't make sense. What are you even saying? Maddoff's scandal isn't the same as wanting a more logical political climate as opposed to one that has hyper sentimental nationalists that like to think they actually know what's going on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 01:08 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,250 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
So 45 years ago was 10 seconds ago? It's not the past right? It's an extremist view of the past.

The problem is, you frame the debate in hyper nationalistic terms. You don't take into consideration any economic data. You haven't looked at any real social data.

It's not akin to Madoff. How could you even draw such a comparison? That's frankly idiotic. It really doesn't make sense. What are you even saying? Maddoff's scandal isn't the same as wanting a more logical political climate as opposed to one that has hyper sentimental nationalists that like to think they actually know what's going on.
What I'm saying is that America is allowing it's major corporations and financial institutions to ride the illegal migrants for all they are worth. At some point America will pay for it. And we're starting to see the cost right now.

How do you define social data, quality of life, happiness, etc? Do you have a spread sheet that does that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 01:09 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,329 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Arguing with this guy is like talking to a dead horse....You get the same thing in return every time... nothing.
That's ironic coming from you. False and ironic. The false part is highly characteristic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 01:17 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,329 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
What I'm saying is that America is allowing it's major corporations and financial institutions to ride the illegal migrants for all they are worth. At some point America will pay for it. And we're starting to see the cost right now.

How do you define social data, quality of life, happiness, etc? Do you have a spread sheet that does that?
They make up less than 4% of the workforce. They are only concentrated in a few industries. Def. not finance. The pain would be felt in agriculture and be mostly seen in smaller towns...if they left. So I really don't think that you have a good analogy there (seeing how we've seen the effects on small towns after deportation). Not to mention, it was precisely because of a en masse push to ignore the poor that drives rabid anti-illegal sentiment as well as allowing corporations to dupe the American public.

Well, it depends. Demography is considered social data. Epidemiology has aspects of social data. Sociology is the study of society. Many claims are quantitative. That's social data. The data is usually on excel. Polling is an example of social data.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 01:21 AM
 
Location: deep in the south
233 posts, read 390,286 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Arguing with this guy is like talking to a dead horse....You get the same thing in return every time... nothing.
mkfarnam, I'm done with him. He proposes to KNOW what I have lived thru in my lifetime. He is PRO all the way. I'd like to propose we send all those huddled masses of border jumpers to his house and he can feed them and see to their medical, education and housing needs too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top