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Old 09-17-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
It's common knowledge that the 9/11 terrorists came via legal means.
YA THINK !!


Can you guarantee me that no cells are here in the U.S that we don't know about didn't get here from Mexico?
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:27 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
The questions were poorly posed. Your questions are too leading and thinly veiled. You want reaffirmation of your stance or to pick a fight. That's why I didn't answer. I disagree, nor do I really want to fight you.

Actually, we know on VERY good authority and historical precedent that terrorists don't come via Mexico to the US overland. They will have a visa. It's naive to think that terrorism will be solved by closing the southern border. It's beyond naive. It's poor policy.

The argument that was presented was terror babies. It's a very flawed and disturbing argument. It's disturbing because people actually believe this is a legitimate thing. It's not. It makes us look like the laughing stock of the world when that is a real national discussion.
No, you didn't want to answer my questions because it would intimidate you. I am not looking for a fight nor were my questions geared that way.

You have proof that terrorists will always come with a visa? I already told you what the FBI Director stated, are you just going to ignore that? I have never suggested that we "close" the southern border nor the nothern one for that matter just that we secure them as much as possible so that people only come through legal points of entry.

No, what makes us the laughing stock of the world is just how unsecure our borders are and that millions of illegal aliens have managed to enter them illegally and remain in this country for years. We are a laughing stock because we grant their kids U.S. citizenship via their birth on our soil and then foot the bill for they and their parent's social costs while allowing them to steal our jobs and benefits.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,962 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post

Actually, we know on VERY good authority and historical precedent that terrorists don't come via Mexico to the US overland. They will have a visa. It's naive to think that terrorism will be solved by closing the southern border. It's beyond naive. It's poor policy.
Who is WE and this VERY good authority? And who said that closing the border will solve terrorism? Answer that question by giving us the names of WE and GOOD AUTHORITY and nothing else, just the names of the people and or agencies, so we can verify. Califreeman try and read this thread from the beginning and notice when you are asked direct questions you won't answer them but you'd rather come up with some policy/procedure or study done or something else you read, and then try to spin it or start insulting. Do you not realize most people see right through that?

Ya know I applaude you for getting that degree and your passion for the illegals, but I'm sure there are plenty of poor legal Americans who would love for you to help them. But if your so head strong about the people SOB then move there, because there are plenty of Americans who are tired of people like you telling us what is best and how you wan't to spend our money. Spend your own..

Last edited by Iluvmycountry; 09-17-2010 at 03:35 PM.. Reason: add another sentance.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:51 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvmycountry View Post
Who is WE and this VERY good authority? And who said that closing the border will solve terrorism? Answer that question by giving us the names of WE and GOOD AUTHORITY and nothing else, just the names of the people and or agencies, so we can verify. Califreeman try and read this thread from the beginning and notice when you are asked direct questions you won't answer them but you'd rather come up with some policy/procedure or study done or something else you read, and then try to spin it or start insulting. Do you not realize most people see right through that?

Ya know I applaude you for getting that degree and your passion for the illegals, but I'm sure there are plenty of poor legal Americans who would love for you to help them. But if your so head strong about the people SOB then move there, because there are plenty of Americans who are tired of people like you telling us what is best and how you wan't to spend our money. Spend your own..
Excellent, truthful post!
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,203,701 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
It's common knowledge that the 9/11 terrorists came via legal means.
What difference does that make?
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:02 PM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvmycountry View Post
Who is WE and this VERY good authority? And who said that closing the border will solve terrorism? Answer that question by giving us the names of WE and GOOD AUTHORITY and nothing else, just the names of the people and or agencies, so we can verify. Califreeman try and read this thread from the beginning and notice when you are asked direct questions you won't answer them but you'd rather come up with some policy/procedure or study done or something else you read, and then try to spin it or start insulting. Do you not realize most people see right through that?

Ya know I applaude you for getting that degree and your passion for the illegals, but I'm sure there are plenty of poor legal Americans who would love for you to help them. But if your so head strong about the people SOB then move there, because there are plenty of Americans who are tired of people like you telling us what is best and how you wan't to spend our money. Spend your own..
1) The United States and its intelligence.

2) Chicagonut et al.

3) Leading questions aren't direct. A direct question doesn't already set up the parameters and constructions in which are used to incite and/or reaffirm the stance of the person asking the question. That's not a direct question.

4) It's funny. I stated deportation should occur in certain instances. I even stated that fines should be implemented in order to ensure some that they are held culpable. It seems to me that you, and others, are only out there to assuage your own notions of hysteria and nationalism. This forum is a bubble of emotional appeal and illogical reason. When a person disagrees with aspects of your thesis...it's met with hostility. I was attacked first. I didn't throw the first stone. When people show the downsides of extremism it's met with others name calling (calling people Anti-American).

So I ask, why are you so entrenched? I asked this question at first as trying to be a neutral observer. I asked for quantitative measures. I was given stories of how Mexican illegals are destroying America. It was tired mantra. It's the same tired mantra of "anti-American, they're poor, they don't speak English, they're terrorists, rapists, criminals". The only true point ever given was the disparity of tax collection. Even for that one, I DEMONSTRATED IT!

What's wrong with trying to assimilate people and trying to get more tax revenue from them. They're already here. The best possible solution is to try to assimilate and move forward as well as to ensure a better legal method of entrance. Hold illegal immigrants somewhat culpable, but only within reason. Allow those people waiting a long time entrance sooner. Deport felons. It's a very moderate and tempered approach.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:26 PM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
Reputation: 46
Default !

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, you didn't want to answer my questions because it would intimidate you. I am not looking for a fight nor were my questions geared that way.

You have proof that terrorists will always come with a visa? I already told you what the FBI Director stated, are you just going to ignore that? I have never suggested that we "close" the southern border nor the nothern one for that matter just that we secure them as much as possible so that people only come through legal points of entry.

No, what makes us the laughing stock of the world is just how unsecure our borders are and that millions of illegal aliens have managed to enter them illegally and remain in this country for years. We are a laughing stock because we grant their kids U.S. citizenship via their birth on our soil and then foot the bill for they and their parent's social costs while allowing them to steal our jobs and benefits.
I just stated why I didn't answer your question. Point blank. They're a reflection of your intelligence. A reflection on a cracked and broken mirror. Skewed and irrelevant. Those are your questions.

FAIR "According to authorities, all of the hijackers who committed the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks were foreigners. All of them entered the country legally on a temporary visa" This is from FAIR. However, they're status may or may not have lapsed. All that matters is that they were here legally. Besides, it makes MUCH more sense to come in legally. Not to mention that we are seeing a rise in recruitment of immigrants here in the US. Esp. in communities plagued by xenophobia. So we can say that there is a higher likelihood that the threat will come legally. It has been for the past several decades.

Mueller stated that the threat is more likely to be within the US and those entering from the Middle East via legal means. We know this from historical precedent. These things aren't really disputed. There have been no confirmed terrorist cases in the US that happened from people entering via Mexico.

Actually what makes us a laughing stock is the fact that we have become paranoid and some segments of the population don't bother with the facts. Instead they are perfectly content to live in an extremist reality.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:06 PM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,962 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
What's wrong with trying to assimilate people and trying to get more tax revenue from them. They're already here. The best possible solution is to try to assimilate and move forward as well as to ensure a better legal method of entrance. Hold illegal immigrants somewhat culpable, but only within reason. Allow those people waiting a long time entrance sooner. Deport felons. It's a very moderate and tempered approach.
You seem to forget weve done this before and now there is 22 million more illegals. Where will it end? You state the best possible solution is to assimilate as if your word is the law. Again, young man with his pretty little bachelors degree on the wall, YOU ASSIMILATE THEM into your house and YOU pay for them. And that was not an emotional or angry response as you try to spin it, that is about 70% of Americas opinion so deal with it.
Logic dictates that when an American couple has to try and decide if they can afford a family as they watch part of their hard earned money going to anchor babies the LOGICAL answer is close the borders. No emotions just pure and simple logic.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:28 PM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvmycountry View Post
You seem to forget weve done this before and now there is 22 million more illegals. Where will it end? You state the best possible solution is to assimilate as if your word is the law. Again, young man with his pretty little bachelors degree on the wall, YOU ASSIMILATE THEM into your house and YOU pay for them. And that was not an emotional or angry response as you try to spin it, that is about 70% of Americas opinion so deal with it.
Logic dictates that when an American couple has to try and decide if they can afford a family as they watch part of their hard earned money going to anchor babies the LOGICAL answer is close the borders. No emotions just pure and simple logic.
No we didn't There was no culpability in the previous era. There was essentially no change in visa cost and restrictions. There really was no reformation to aid amnesty. It is an emotional response. It is angry. Your fallacy is called argumentum ad populum. That just because a majority of people claim one thing to be true or right doesn't make it so.

Your second paragraph is steeped in illogic. Personal finances and decisions aren't directly affected by illegal immigration. And as I posted by Dr. Borjas, the average American family saw a 1% increase in wealth due to illegal immigration (cheaper prices, more money in social security, and more tax revenue in rural communities). It's not as clear cut as your make it out to be.

Dr. Borjas of Harvard Economics. You can check it out.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:03 AM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,962 times
Reputation: 293
Allrighty then. Kiddo, you seem to have found all the answers, Good luck in your cause. Do us all a favor and keep out of our wallets. As long as you don't answer any of the other posters questions honestly this thread is going nowhere. Oh and someday try to slide over from the far left...
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