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Old 09-03-2010, 06:21 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
hopefully you understand me this time, sorry for the previous comment, let me make it more understadable.

millions of mexicans work for maquiladoras for 2 dollars a day, some mexicans produce cars, televisions, computers for the american market, their like the chinese workers there producing but they dont make enough to buy it.

who benefits? american consumers, so if the corporations that left the american mainland because of higher wages, more regulations go to countries like mexico to exploit their labor force.

if we as a country preach liberty, democracy for all of us. how can we preach that illegals consume and destroy everything they touch?

when millions of poor people around the world, are feeding our consumer habit at the penny level, thats the reason our trade balance is so mess up.

because simply were benefitting from cheap products, cheap financing etc
hopefully you get the picture

so for example just at the border if theres 1.2 million workers working for 40 hours, x 52 weeks at two dollars an hour, thats 5.4 billion in wages,

now hold that thought for a second imagine if the companies would pay them what an american worker makes minimum wage? at 7.25 that would be 18 billion dollars

conclusion thats 3 TIMES MORE than what there receiving now,
so as an american consumer, were not being good neighbors, the rich exploit the poor, and then claim that in actuallity their helping their cause

now do u want to add? chinese workers working for american overseas corporations? guatemala? etc etc
Yes, but are cheaper products worth the loss of jobs here for Americans by both outsourcing them or importing illegal aliens to do them on our soil and all the associated social costs related to them? I don't think so!
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,202 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Yes, but are cheaper products worth the loss of jobs here for Americans by both outsourcing them or importing illegal aliens to do them on our soil and all the associated social costs related to them? I don't think so!

what? cheaper products worth the loss of jobs here for americans by outsourcing them or importing illegalls.


hold that thought for a second.

U.S. Companies Paid More Taxes Overseas - BusinessWeek

read this article
done reading it?
ok

American multinationals have long tapped foreign markets to take advantage of lower labor costs, looser regulations, and simpler tax structures that can make doing business overseas more cost-efficient than in the U.S. But it's not just jobs migrating abroad—it's now tax dollars too, a senior index analyst at Standard & Poor's says. (S&P, like BusinessWeek, is owned by The McGraw-Hill Companies (MHP).)


"Shipping Jobs Overseas" or Reaching New Customers? Why Congress Should Not Tax Reinvested ... | Daniel Griswold | Cato Institute: Free Trade Bulletin (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10652 - broken link)

now read this one.

the illegals are actually doing the companies that dont have the capacity to compete with the big corporations a favor,
the outsourcing its regardless and when illegals come
the only cost that I , I , see that is the main concern its educating the kids from illegals other than that, most of them are healthy ready to work individuals.

now if you think that theres simple wrong what I am saying, pretty much saying that the illegals certainly uses mores services then they pay in taxes,

well add the 50 million mexican workers exploited by american corporations into the tab, then add, guatemals, chinas, el salvador, indonesia, phillipines

PUT THEM ALL IN THE TAB....
that they are suppressing american wages? its either that or the outflow of blood would be greater, in actuallity I think that the rich that claim that they should not cut the tax cuts made by bush are the ones exactly the ones employing cheap labor or employing illegals..

CAPITALISM ITS ABOUT INNOVATION, producing the most profits no matter what......
put all the expenses on the illegals on the tab of the poor workers of the world

"in god we trust" in god we trust huh well god has brought us our nemesis our own playground rule to our shores.
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:50 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
what? cheaper products worth the loss of jobs here for americans by outsourcing them or importing illegalls.

hold that thought for a second.

U.S. Companies Paid More Taxes Overseas - BusinessWeek

read this article
done reading it?
ok

American multinationals have long tapped foreign markets to take advantage of lower labor costs, looser regulations, and simpler tax structures that can make doing business overseas more cost-efficient than in the U.S. But it's not just jobs migrating abroad—it's now tax dollars too, a senior index analyst at Standard & Poor's says. (S&P, like BusinessWeek, is owned by The McGraw-Hill Companies (MHP).)

"Shipping Jobs Overseas" or Reaching New Customers? Why Congress Should Not Tax Reinvested ... | Daniel Griswold | Cato Institute: Free Trade Bulletin (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10652 - broken link)

now read this one.

the illegals are actually doing the companies that dont have the capacity to compete with the big corporations a favor,
the outsourcing its regardless and when illegals come
the only cost that I , I , see that is the main concern its educating the kids from illegals other than that, most of them are healthy ready to work individuals.

now if you think that theres simple wrong what I am saying, pretty much saying that the illegals certainly uses mores services then they pay in taxes,

well add the 50 million mexican workers exploited by american corporations into the tab, then add, guatemals, chinas, el salvador, indonesia, phillipines

PUT THEM ALL IN THE TAB....
that they are suppressing american wages? its either that or the outflow of blood would be greater, in actuallity I think that the rich that claim that they should not cut the tax cuts made by bush are the ones exactly the ones employing cheap labor or employing illegals..

CAPITALISM ITS ABOUT INNOVATION, producing the most profits no matter what......
put all the expenses on the illegals on the tab of the poor workers of the world

"in god we trust" in god we trust huh well god has brought us our nemesis our own playground rule to our shores.
I am having a problem following your train of thought here because your sentence construction is off and you are all over the place in trying to make your points. One thing I will say is that it costs a lot more in taxes than just educating the children of illegals. We have to pay for their births and welfare till they are 18 years old. That is only the tip of the iceberg as to the associated costs.

If an employer can't compete without hiring illegal aliens which is against the law then they shouldn't be in business.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:21 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,202 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I am having a problem following your train of thought here because your sentence construction is off and you are all over the place in trying to make your points. One thing I will say is that it costs a lot more in taxes than just educating the children of illegals. We have to pay for their births and welfare till they are 18 years old. That is only the tip of the iceberg as to the associated costs.

If an employer can't compete without hiring illegal aliens which is against the law then they shouldn't be in business.

I give up, I am just saying put on the the tab of the lowly paid workers of the world, what illegals are telling americans is that if you come to my country and are willing to pay me 2 dollars an hour and expect me to live off that< then I can go to your country and make you live off minimum wage as well,

and to tell you the thruth I think the third world is winning,

Last edited by inturbide1981; 09-04-2010 at 08:24 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:11 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
I give up, I am just saying put on the the tab of the lowly paid workers of the world, what illegals are telling americans is that if you come to my country and are willing to pay me 2 dollars an hour and expect me to live off that< then I can go to your country and make you live off minimum wage as well,

and to tell you the thruth I think the third world is winning,
You're still not expressing yourself with coherency. Am I to understand that you are saying that by illegals coming here and working for 2 dollars an hour that Americans should be willing to do the same just so they have a job in their own country and you're ok with that? Are you also saying that if Mexicans in Mexico are getting paid 2 dollars and hour by an American company there they should then in turn be able to come to our country illegally and work for 2 dollars an hour and thereby bring down the wages of an American worker? I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.

You do realize that the cost of living in the U.S. compared to Mexico is much higher, don't you?
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,202 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You're still not expressing yourself with coherency. Am I to understand that you are saying that by illegals coming here and working for 2 dollars an hour that Americans should be willing to do the same just so they have a job in their own country and you're ok with that? Are you also saying that if Mexicans in Mexico are getting paid 2 dollars and hour by an American company there they should then in turn be able to come to our country illegally and work for 2 dollars an hour and thereby bring down the wages of an American worker? I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.

You do realize that the cost of living in the U.S. compared to Mexico is much higher, don't you?
me and my incoherencies
ok let me put it like this

GM, Ford Accelerate Shift to Mexico Workers Making $26 a Day - Bloomberg

México: El nuevo Ford Fiesta ya a la venta

GM workers in Mexico earn wages and benefits of 340 pesos a day ($26.40) on average, or less than $4 an hour, said Tereso Medina, head of the union for GM’s 5,000 workers in Saltillo, a city that makes one in four Mexican autos. Ford workers in the U.S. earn about $55 an hour with benefits, compared with $50 an hour for Toyota Motor Corp.’s U.S. workers, Lewis Booth, Ford’s chief financial officer, said on a Jan. 28 conference call.

the car that the mexican is making is saving ford 51 dollars for every hour that he works, now you say that the cost of living is less in mexico than here youre right when it comes to food stuffs, but when it comes to cars, phones, plasmas its still out of their reach

as you can see that same fiesta ford car the mexican is building would take him 529 days to buy a car like that and thats saving on his own without financing.

and to make my point clear of the 2 million cars that mexico produces
400,000 are for the mexican domestic sector and the other 1,600,000 arefor the american consumer.

so what I am saying is if americans can go to mexico or china and just to avoid the american goverment from taxing them, or to avoid the american workforces needs of regulations, go to a poor country and
dictate to them to take it or leave policy.

then the poor are answering back with the same mentality. IF I CAN LIVE OFF CRUMBS THAT YOU SO CALLED SALARIES, THEN I CAN GO TO YOUR COUNTRY AND MAKE YOUR COUNTRYMEN LIVE OFF THE MINIMUM WAGE.

now you get it? so again if 8% of americas workforce is illegal.
and their such a leach to americas social services. "its amazing if corporations hired them and cannot prove to the federal goverment how they gave more then 10,000 dollars in salaries per worker then they are in trouble"

so if you put how much money countries like mexico, china,vietnam, indonesia, el salvodor, guatemala, colombia, peru save the american consumer then the argument of illegal immigration is more then justify.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:15 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,202 times
Reputation: 23
Why Do American Companies Outsource? | eHow.co.uk

read this article, its really interesting, you have to open your mind and see whats happening.

americans are losing the battle because simple

they dont want the american social fabric to change that is foreign population but if you see
how americans are growing without legal or illegal immigration the american population woud not even be replacing itself.

and capitalism is all about making profits, back in the days everything work so well because millions of poor europeans would come and the corporations would not seek labores, they were practically coming to america by themselves.

the only diffrence now is that those foreigners are diffrently and thats whats scares america, but I think that the loss of jobs and the outsourcing of jobs would happen at a faster pace without illegals anyways.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:29 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
me and my incoherencies
ok let me put it like this

GM, Ford Accelerate Shift to Mexico Workers Making $26 a Day - Bloomberg

México: El nuevo Ford Fiesta ya a la venta

GM workers in Mexico earn wages and benefits of 340 pesos a day ($26.40) on average, or less than $4 an hour, said Tereso Medina, head of the union for GM’s 5,000 workers in Saltillo, a city that makes one in four Mexican autos. Ford workers in the U.S. earn about $55 an hour with benefits, compared with $50 an hour for Toyota Motor Corp.’s U.S. workers, Lewis Booth, Ford’s chief financial officer, said on a Jan. 28 conference call.

the car that the mexican is making is saving ford 51 dollars for every hour that he works, now you say that the cost of living is less in mexico than here youre right when it comes to food stuffs, but when it comes to cars, phones, plasmas its still out of their reach

as you can see that same fiesta ford car the mexican is building would take him 529 days to buy a car like that and thats saving on his own without financing.

and to make my point clear of the 2 million cars that mexico produces
400,000 are for the mexican domestic sector and the other 1,600,000 arefor the american consumer.

so what I am saying is if americans can go to mexico or china and just to avoid the american goverment from taxing them, or to avoid the american workforces needs of regulations, go to a poor country and
dictate to them to take it or leave policy.

then the poor are answering back with the same mentality. IF I CAN LIVE OFF CRUMBS THAT YOU SO CALLED SALARIES, THEN I CAN GO TO YOUR COUNTRY AND MAKE YOUR COUNTRYMEN LIVE OFF THE MINIMUM WAGE.

now you get it? so again if 8% of americas workforce is illegal.
and their such a leach to americas social services. "its amazing if corporations hired them and cannot prove to the federal goverment how they gave more then 10,000 dollars in salaries per worker then they are in trouble"

so if you put how much money countries like mexico, china,vietnam, indonesia, el salvodor, guatemala, colombia, peru save the american consumer then the argument of illegal immigration is more then justify.
There is no justification for illegal immigration. It is against the law. No matter how you try and claim that they save the ordinary American money in consumer spending you would be wrong when you weigh all the other associated costs of having them here not to mention how it affects our population growth, crime rates and diminishes our culture and way of life.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:45 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
Why Do American Companies Outsource? | eHow.co.uk

read this article, its really interesting, you have to open your mind and see whats happening.

americans are losing the battle because simple

they dont want the american social fabric to change that is foreign population but if you see
how americans are growing without legal or illegal immigration the american population woud not even be replacing itself.

and capitalism is all about making profits, back in the days everything work so well because millions of poor europeans would come and the corporations would not seek labores, they were practically coming to america by themselves.

the only diffrence now is that those foreigners are diffrently and thats whats scares america, but I think that the loss of jobs and the outsourcing of jobs would happen at a faster pace without illegals anyways.
Americans are breeding at replacement levels and in fact we don't even need to do that. We already have over 300 million people in this country. We could scale back our population growth and have a smaller population to fit a smaller economy. We need to stay within the carrying capacity of this nation and many experts agree we are beyond that. If we need additional people we can import legal immigrants. No one is arguing against legal immigration in reasonable numbers that won't take jobs from Americans. It is illegal aliens that we object to.

The foreigners you speak of in the illegal catagory are mostly Hispanic. Since when are Hispanics strangers to this country and "different"? However, if we permit too many of one ethnic group the demographics of this country will change. Do you know of any country that would want their identifying culture to change due to too much legal or illegal immigration from mostly one ethnic group?

I am not sure what can be done about outsourcing but there certainly is something we can do about illegal immigration and all of those things have been mentioned in here already.

So are you of a defeatist attitude about our illegal immigration problem or are you telling us you're ok with illegal immigration? Which is it? Let's stop beating around the bush here.
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,202 times
Reputation: 23
read this and see for yourself, when they say that foreigners are taking our jobs? I ask myself how can they say that? do they not believe in capitalism? has this country turning marxism?

The 2010 Statistical Abstract: Deaths
The 2010 Statistical Abstract: Births

just look at the facts with or without illegal immigration
of the total 4,266,000 births per year in 2006

1,039,000 was thanks to hispanics
2,309,000 was thanks to whites
617,000 was thanks to blacks
301,000 was thanks to asians and indians,eskimos etc

now look at the facts of deaths per year 2006
of the total 2,426,000 deaths per year in 2006

1,945,000 was whites
133,000 was hispanics
290,000 was blacks
58,000 the rest

so for 2006
there was a surplus of
364,000 thousand whites
906,000 thousand hispanics
327,000 thousand blacks


so lets pretend were trying to make america less hispanic
if you put central america, south america, mexico put together
the natural increase I can assure you is of at least 8,000,000 people

under your capitalism system, you need capital, workforce, resources to accomplish your goals in making profits and bringing production up.

how can america compete without adding, africa, asia, europe,
with just 600,000 new citizens per year when the world is putting at least close to 60,000,000 new citizens per year? thats a ratio of 100 to 1

ILLEGALS ARE PREVENTNG THE OUTFLOW OF JOBS NOT DESTROYING THEM.
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