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I bought a bird feeder. I hung
It on my back porch and filled
It with seed. What a beauty of
a bird feeder it was, as I filled it
lovingly with seed. Within a
week we had hundreds of birds
taking advantage of the
continuous flow of free and
easily accessible food.
But then the birds started
building nests in the boards
of the patio, above the table,
and next to the barbecue.
Then came the poop. It was
everywhere: on the patio tile,
the chairs, the table ...
Everywhere!
Then some of the birds
turned mean. They would
dive bomb me and try to
peck me even though I had
fed them out of my own
pocket.
And other birds were
boisterous and loud. They
sat on the feeder and
squawked and screamed at
all hours of the day and night
and demanded that I fill it
when it got low on food.
After a while, I couldn't even
sit on my own back porch
anymore. So I took down the
bird feeder and in three days
the birds were gone. I cleaned
up their mess and took down
the many nests they had built
all over the patio.
Soon, the back yard was like
it used to be .... Quiet, serene....
And no one demanding their
rights to a free meal.
Now let's see.
Our government gives out
free food, subsidized housing,
free medical care and free
education, and allows anyone
born here to be an automatic
citizen.
Then the illegals came by the
thousands. Suddenly
our taxes went up to pay for
free services; small apartments
are housing 5 families; you
have to wait 6 hours to be seen
by an emergency room doctor;
your child's second grade class is
behind other schools because
over half the class doesn't speak
English.
Corn Flakes now come in a
bilingual box; I have to
'press one ' to hear my bank
talk to me in English, and
people waving flags other
than the "Stars and Stripes" are
squawking and screaming
in the streets, demanding
more rights and free liberties.
Just my opinion, but maybe
it's time for the government
to take down the bird feeder.
Emotional appeals are great and all, but reality still triumphs.
Cal, at your age you're much to young to be grounded in reality. Trust me on this.
Quote:
Of course illegal immigration is a problem. It reduces funding to high immigrant areas (people aren't counted, thus overcrowding). It reduces tax revenue (about 45% of illegal immigrants don't pay taxes).
That's it? Strictly economics? Illegal migration is more than an economics problem, it's simply wrong. And wrong on many levels. Illegal migration is about coveting, stealing, cheating and lying to achieve one's goals. All of those are wrong by the way. Actually, illegal migration creates an ideal framework for one to view what is right vs. what is wrong.
Unfortunately, the American Government will not instruct it's people in what is right or set up policies that will lead in that direction. It's public schools and universities have failed in their duty. I would even say that many of what was once our brightest institutions now lean towards extreme socialism, or outright Marxism, with a very bad social agenda in the works. They would like nothing better than to overthrow yesterday's America, today. And what better way to do this than by creating a welfare society and flooding it with 3rd world migrants? It's actually a brilliant idea when you think it through. Not one military bullet will need to be fired. You simply need to teach your students how to do it. And what better place to do it than within our colleges and universities? It only takes a couple of generations to see the plan (experiment is how Obama put it the other day) through. It's been baking in the oven for the last 45 years. And it's just about ready. I guess we'll all have to see what it tastes like when it's served.
Quote:
But deportation isn't really a good idea.
Why sure it is. However, America has to be willing to do it. It will cost us. Yes, and perhaps a lot. But it IS the right thing to do. Just like fighting against Japan in world war II. Because it was the right thing to do. That's why you do it.
Quote:
We've seen the effects on small communities. Just in direct deportation costs it's a staggering $100 billion. With lost sales tax, cost of employee replacement, etc. it would be more than double. It's simply not feasible in a down economy. The cost of deportation is greater than the cost of illegal immigration (which stands at $10 billion to the federal government CIS reports...FAIR reports $100 billion, but doesn't factor in contributions from illegal immigrants). I'm simply proposing that there is a better way than the current emotion based platforms I've seeing on here.
I would be willing to support the Government if it spent 1 trillion dollars to deport the illegal migrants. When you do what is right, you reap what is good. We do reap what we sow you know. That's a universal law that will not change.
Quote:
Really, I'm saying why don't we have reform in such a way that enables people to go on with their lives, but pay more taxes?
You mean wealth redistribution? No, that doesn't work either. It's called stealing and it's unjust. And it only makes the wage earners more angry.
Quote:
Why don't we have a system that allows workers to work, students to study, etc, but deport hardened criminals?
The "system" isn't about "allowing" someone something, unless of course it's grounded in Marxism. Free Governments are about the common protection of it's citizens in their personal and individual pursuits of life, liberty and happiness.
Quote:
There is a middle ground, the debate isn't all or nothing. If you frame it in such stark terms, you actually create really bad policies.
Wait another 25 years. I think you'll regret that you advocated for the illegal migrants and non deportation.
Cal, at your age you're much to young to be grounded in reality. Trust me on this.
That's it? Strictly economics? Illegal migration is more than an economics problem, it's simply wrong. And wrong on many levels. Illegal migration is about coveting, stealing, cheating and lying to achieve one's goals. All of those are wrong by the way. Actually, illegal migration creates an ideal framework for one to view what is right vs. what is wrong.
Unfortunately, the American Government will not instruct it's people in what is right or set up policies that will lead in that direction. It's public schools and universities have failed in their duty. I would even say that many of what was once our brightest institutions now lean towards extreme socialism, or outright Marxism, with a very bad social agenda in the works. They would like nothing better than to overthrow yesterday's America, today. And what better way to do this than by creating a welfare society and flooding it with 3rd world migrants? It's actually a brilliant idea when you think it through. Not one military bullet will need to be fired. You simply need to teach your students how to do it. And what better place to do it than within our colleges and universities? It only takes a couple of generations to see the plan (experiment is how Obama put it the other day) through. It's been baking in the oven for the last 45 years. And it's just about ready. I guess we'll all have to see what it tastes like when it's served.
Why sure it is. However, America has to be willing to do it. It will cost us. Yes, and perhaps a lot. But it IS the right thing to do. Just like fighting against Japan in world war II. Because it was the right thing to do. That's why you do it.
I would be willing to support the Government if it spent 1 trillion dollars to deport the illegal migrants. When you do what is right, you reap what is good. We do reap what we sow you know. That's a universal law that will not change.
You mean wealth redistribution? No, that doesn't work either. It's called stealing and it's unjust. And it only makes the wage earners more angry.
The "system" isn't about "allowing" someone something, unless of course it's grounded in Marxism. Free Governments are about the common protection of it's citizens in their personal and individual pursuits of life, liberty and happiness.
Wait another 25 years. I think you'll regret that you advocated for the illegal migrants and non deportation.
Isn't it interesting how the pro-illegals keep spouting the same nonsense about the costs of mass involuntary deportations when we keep telling them over and over that it doesn't have to happen that way? If we enforce our laws on the books and take away any incentives to remain here many if not most will self-deport. There are no associated costs with that.
The jobs that those illegals vacate would be taken by Americans or legal immigrants and yet they still spout the same old nonsense that we would be losing taxes. How so? Wouldn't the American or legal immigrant taking those jobs be paying the same taxes and even more so at a fair wage?
As Benicar and others pointed out they totally ignore the costs associated with the paperwork and tracking of legalizing these illegal aliens. When and if they became citizens they could then sponsor the rest of their third world, uneducated, unskilled family members from their homeland. Yeah, a real win, win for Americans...NOT!
Last edited by chicagonut; 09-12-2010 at 07:22 PM..
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,428,052 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman
Emotional appeals are great and all, but reality still triumphs. Of course illegal immigration is a problem. It reduces funding to high immigrant areas (people aren't counted, thus overcrowding). It reduces tax revenue (about 45% of illegal immigrants don't pay taxes). But deportation isn't really a good idea. We've seen the effects on small communities. Just in direct deportation costs it's a staggering $100 billion. With lost sales tax, cost of employee replacement, etc. it would be more than double. It's simply not feasible in a down economy. The cost of deportation is greater than the cost of illegal immigration (which stands at $10 billion to the federal government CIS reports...FAIR reports $100 billion, but doesn't factor in contributions from illegal immigrants). I'm simply proposing that there is a better way than the current emotion based platforms I've seeing on here.
Really, I'm saying why don't we have reform in such a way that enables people to go on with their lives, but pay more taxes? Why don't we have a system that allows workers to work, students to study, etc, but deport hardened criminals? There is a middle ground, the debate isn't all or nothing. If you frame it in such stark terms, you actually create really bad policies.
Quote:
in direct deportation costs it's a staggering $100 billion.
Come on..spit it out.Where's your proof.?
What a stretch of the imagination. And we're suppose to believe that?
It wouldn't even cost 1 billion if each illegal was given a first class ticket on United Airlines, so where's the 100 billion coming from?
I want to see a link to your statistics ....and not just a name.
Quote:
cost of employee replacement,
Since when does taxes pay for or provide employment to employers?
I was going to close this thread, but I'll leave it open, as long as you switch your focus from personal issues (who is young, who is a dreamie,pro/against, who is whatever) to illegal immigration issues. Remember this is not politics nor some other popularity contest - if you came here to "win" arguments regardless of what you say, you've chosen the wrong place.
Yac.
Come on..spit it out.Where's your proof.?
What a stretch of the imagination. And we're suppose to believe that?
It wouldn't even cost 1 billion if each illegal was given a first class ticket on United Airlines, so where's the 100 billion coming from?
I want to see a link to your statistics ....and not just a name.
Since when does taxes pay for or provide employment to employers?
That was beautiful AlabamaStorm. Califreeman if the illegals get just one dollar then that is one dollar less for the people who actually paid into the system, regardless of what B.S. you try to spin on it. Hell lets just cancel the military. There, that saved us a ton. And to say we are going after the poorest segment of the population is ludicrous. It is that they are here illegally and you know exactly what that means, please quit trying to make them look as if they are doing us a favor. So how about AlabamaStorm's brilliant idea? Get that going and I might even send you a dollar.
So lets let emotion dictate the conversation? I don't want to see my country fail because a bunch of people are too pissed off to see straight. I'd rather let rationale thought prevail.
So lets let emotion dictate the conversation? I don't want to see my country fail because a bunch of people are too pissed off to see straight. I'd rather let rationale thought prevail.
This is my last post to you as you just aren't getting the big picture. I believe this article below sums up my argument. When I stated every dollar an illegal gets who never paid into the system, is one less dollar for Americans who paid into the system, I said that as fact not emotions. GET IT?
So lets let emotion dictate the conversation? I don't want to see my country fail because a bunch of people are too pissed off to see straight. I'd rather let rationale thought prevail.
There is plenty of misplaced emotion and compassion on the pro-illegal side and they are too ticked off to see straight. They aren't thinking rationally, most of them are thinking with an ethnocentric mindset.
The Center for American Progress reports the figure to be nearly $280 billion.
You don't understand that there are legal processes that must be dealt with. Thus, a large amount of paper work and personnel would be needed.
You do realize you could do a Google search for citations I provide. Again, some things are not on the internet.
I think most of us understand the legal process.
I think this process should be eliminated if one is an illegal alien.
Why? Because they are either here legally or illegally - very black and white! Legally here, no problem. Illegal, then board the next bus or plane home.
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