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Old 09-02-2010, 01:23 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Why don't you try www.numbersUSA.com or(general discussions) on ALIPAC Forums-General Discussion
Those illegal immigration forums and their orginizations are run with leaders and daily up to date information.
Not that CDF isn't up to date.
I kind of what to see people's thought processes as well. Like, numbersUSA isn't really a forum. I want to see how people who aren't talking heads (I'm going on a HUGE limb by thinking most people on here aren't policy makers, or writers, etc.) are formulating their ideas. Where and how are people formulating their ideas?
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,450 posts, read 7,553,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
Personally, if somebody asked me to prove my views in an uncontested setting, I'd do it in heartbeat. It's kind of like an open ended survey, but with a little more proof needed. That's all.
Like I said, there are a TON of posts regarding this subject that are already solidified on this forum. From the tone of your inquiry, you are pro-amnesty and pro-illegal. Since this is the "uncontested" venue of your choice, why dont you start by giving us YOUR reasons for why you feel that America is NOT headed for ruin in regards to opening our borders?

That would surely stimulate debate amongs the posters that reside here. I cannot guarantee that I will reply, as I feel the topic is self explanatory to those with common sense, but it will surely give us people who disagree with you a starting point for debate, since previous posts are not enough for you.

You say that you do not want to debate, but why do you want our opinions if you are not going to discuss yours?
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
If you look hard enough you'll see that most of the main topics of each thread has a link to show where the information came from.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I kind of what to see people's thought processes as well. Like, numbersUSA isn't really a forum. I want to see how people who aren't talking heads (I'm going on a HUGE limb by thinking most people on here aren't policy makers, or writers, etc.) are formulating their ideas. Where and how are people formulating their ideas?
NumbersUSA may not be a forum per se, but there is a forum on the site.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:51 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
If you look hard enough you'll see that most of the main topics of each thread has a link to show where the information came from.
I'm asking what you think is wrong and why. Not on one esoteric point. So you may feel that illegal immigrants do xyz because a source states the repercussions of xyz are abc. Then another person may have another perspective of the same problem citing their sources.

Imagine if you were trying to convince somebody. Would you be as reticent, or would you be more excited?
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I'm asking what you think is wrong and why. Not on one esoteric point. So you may feel that illegal immigrants do xyz because a source states the repercussions of xyz are abc. Then another person may have another perspective of the same problem citing their sources.

Imagine if you were trying to convince somebody. Would you be as reticent, or would you be more excited?
A high percentage of posters here, are people who are or have been inffected by, live in, or have lived in a community infested, run down or taken over by illegal immigrants.
So alot of what's posted here comes from first hand experience.
In SoCal, I had a buiness for 19 yr's that was forced to be shut down because illegals took over the community.
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:16 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
A high percentage of posters here, are people who are or have been inffected by, live in, or have lived in a community infested, run down or taken over by illegal immigrants.
So alot of what's posted here comes from first hand experience.
In SoCal, I had a buiness for 19 yr's that was forced to be shut down because illegals took over the community.
I live in SoCal. I asked my neighbors and relatives if illegal immigration affected them. I've gotten an interesting array of responses. Each more based on emotional appeal. I didn't ask for their evidence. Now I am for your anecdotes. Maybe had I asked for evidence up front, I would have had vastly different responses. I don't know. So I'm giving it a try.

So that's why I don't rely on anecdotes. There is less logic and more emotion. What evidence do you have that illegal immigration has degraded your life (or family's life, or friends, or your neighborhood, city, state, nation, etc.)? That's what I'm going after. I'm not looking for the "there is more crime because my CD collection got stolen". That lends itself to open to interpretation.
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:20 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Like I said, there are a TON of posts regarding this subject that are already solidified on this forum. From the tone of your inquiry, you are pro-amnesty and pro-illegal. Since this is the "uncontested" venue of your choice, why dont you start by giving us YOUR reasons for why you feel that America is NOT headed for ruin in regards to opening our borders?

That would surely stimulate debate amongs the posters that reside here. I cannot guarantee that I will reply, as I feel the topic is self explanatory to those with common sense, but it will surely give us people who disagree with you a starting point for debate, since previous posts are not enough for you.

You say that you do not want to debate, but why do you want our opinions if you are not going to discuss yours?
I don't want to discuss mine because I already know my side. I want to delve into what you think. That's it. The topic isn't self explanatory. I've yet to have one person say I believe in the things I do because if you look at (blank) you will see (blank) as reported by (blank). I don't want a debate right now...just what is your take and what evidence. That's it.

It's not really a contentious question. If I were sitting next to you at a coffee shop and posed the same question, how would you answer?
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:36 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I live in SoCal. I asked my neighbors and relatives if illegal immigration affected them. I've gotten an interesting array of responses. Each more based on emotional appeal. I didn't ask for their evidence. Now I am for your anecdotes. Maybe had I asked for evidence up front, I would have had vastly different responses. I don't know. So I'm giving it a try.

So that's why I don't rely on anecdotes. There is less logic and more emotion. What evidence do you have that illegal immigration has degraded your life (or family's life, or friends, or your neighborhood, city, state, nation, etc.)? That's what I'm going after. I'm not looking for the "there is more crime because my CD collection got stolen". That lends itself to open to interpretation.
We don't need "evidence" the only argument that we need is that illegal immigration is against the law. Anyone with half a brain would know why it is against the law.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
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Anecdotes? I've got many, but here is a little ditty about the first time my eyes were opened to what was going on in this country with regards to illegal immigration.

I moved from Texas to California. My son (then in kindergarten) began school. The first day in his new school, he came home crying that the other children were mean to him and picked on him. I tried to assure him that as they got to know him, this would change. It went on for weeks. His complaints took on another aspect--the children would no longer speak English to him.

Concerned, I went to the school to speak to the teacher. As I was walking on the campus, I began to notice that all of the children I encountered were Hispanic--no White, Black, or Asian students. I got to my son's classroom, knocked on the door, and was ignored for five minutes by the teacher inside--until I made it clear that I was not going away. She opened the door and said to me (in a very heavily accented voice) "What do you want?" I explained to her that my son, who was in her morning class, was very unhappy, that he felt that he was not accepted by the other children and that they were now refusing to speak to him in English. She looked me dead in the eye and said to me, "Your son needs to try harder," and then she slammed the door in my face.

I pulled my son out of school that day, put him in a private school nearly 40 miles from our home, at a great financial cost. I later found out that my son and two Black children were the only non-Hispanic children in that school and that the demographic of the area the school served was largely illegal immigrant. I didn't understand then about checking area demographics before moving into an area up to that point. My children had simply attended the local schools and never had a problem fitting in or making friends. That experience taught me a sad lesson about thoroughly investigating any area where my son would be going to school before moving there--which is the reason I was extremely cautious about what area of San Diego we moved to a few weeks ago.

The school my son came from before we went to California was a rainbow of Black, White, Asian, and Hispanic children. He always got along great with everyone and had never been made a target simply because of his blonde hair and blue eyed appearance.

Sadly, his is an experience I've heard repeated time and time again in California. Some can't afford to leave the state and must either move so that their children can receive the education they deserve or they must put their children in private schools because there is no other alternative--which is what we had to do with my son.

When you throw a large number of children who do not speak the native language into a social setting like a school, they naturally will cling together and gang up on those who are different from themselves. Unfortunately, with the numbe of illegal aliens that are invading the California school system, American children and their right to the education their parents are paying for with their tax dollars, end up suffering the most.

Illegal aliens have no right to an American taxpayer funded education ESPECIALLY when said education comes at the expense of American children.

This is only one of many. I have employment and safety related stories as well. But I think that this is a good jumping off place to begin my little saga.

Last edited by Kele; 09-02-2010 at 09:10 AM..
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