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Old 09-02-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I live in SoCal. I asked my neighbors and relatives if illegal immigration affected them. I've gotten an interesting array of responses. Each more based on emotional appeal. I didn't ask for their evidence. Now I am for your anecdotes. Maybe had I asked for evidence up front, I would have had vastly different responses. I don't know. So I'm giving it a try.

So that's why I don't rely on anecdotes. There is less logic and more emotion. What evidence do you have that illegal immigration has degraded your life (or family's life, or friends, or your neighborhood, city, state, nation, etc.)? That's what I'm going after. I'm not looking for the "there is more crime because my CD collection got stolen". That lends itself to open to interpretation.
Someone has done this recently

tell me how immigrants are ruining this country
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:19 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Demographics
for Muscoy,Ca

As of the census[3] of 2000, there were 8,919 people, 2,029 households, and 1,724 families residing in the CDP. The population density was 1,179.3/km˛ (3,050.6/mi˛). There were 2,299 housing units at an average density of 304.0/km˛ (786.3/mi˛). The racial makeup of the CDP was 42.71% White, 7.70% African American, 2.11% Native American, 0.95% Asian, 0.61% Pacific Islander, 40.68% from other races, and 5.25% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 66.29% of the population.
Muscoy, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have no idea the relevance of Muscoy, CA and how it can used as an example of how illegal immigrants serve to illustrate your views. Could you provide more context?
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:30 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I understand that it's a little hard when put on the spot. Again let me reassure you I'm not here to stir the pot (on this thread...lol). I do want to say thanks to Kele among others for their contributions thus far.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:38 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I understand that it's a little hard when put on the spot. Again let me reassure you I'm not here to stir the pot (on this thread...lol). I do want to say thanks to Kele among others for their contributions thus far.
Why would you want us all to rethink, retype and rehash what has already been done for


nearly the exact same topic you have chosen? Peruse the thread, it's not that old.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
You didn't provide a school name. You referred to it as "his new school" or "the school".
If you look at my reply, you will find a link to the school and its demographical make-up, added seconds after the original post.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:47 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,313,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I didn't really have a strong feeling one way or another. Why would I? Actually it is relatively segregated. Foothill High School in Santa Ana is 58% White non-Hispanic. I work in special ed btw.
I think you need to get out more... It might change your perspective and make your arguments more plausible (not believable mind you...LOL).

So, what arguments do you have that would favor illegal migration? I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm just not aware of any.

What statistics can you provide that show illegal migration benefits most American citizens, is good for the country as a whole and is equitable for all?

Can you present the educational statistics and scientific data that illegal migrant families and their children do not bring down educational test scores, do not burden the state tax revenue system that supports their free education, free meals, special classroom instruction and after school programs? Also, can you present data that affirmative action programs for migrant children is equitable for whites and non-favored immigrants and how this is considered just and fair? California would be a good place to start. Can you give me the data to review that supports your feelings where you said:

I personally don't feel that's the case...but I really don't want to debate the issue

I agree, debates are not always useful, but I would like to see the data you have that supports your findings.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,459 posts, read 7,553,239 times
Reputation: 12125
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Like I said, there are a TON of posts regarding this subject that are already solidified on this forum. From the tone of your inquiry, you are pro-amnesty and pro-illegal. Since this is the "uncontested" venue of your choice, why dont you start by giving us YOUR reasons for why you feel that America is NOT headed for ruin in regards to opening our borders?

That would surely stimulate debate amongs the posters that reside here. I cannot guarantee that I will reply, as I feel the topic is self explanatory to those with common sense, but it will surely give us people who disagree with you a starting point for debate, since previous posts are not enough for you.

You say that you do not want to debate, but why do you want our opinions if you are not going to discuss yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I don't want to discuss mine because I already know my side. I want to delve into what you think. That's it. The topic isn't self explanatory. I've yet to have one person say I believe in the things I do because if you look at (blank) you will see (blank) as reported by (blank). I don't want a debate right now...just what is your take and what evidence. That's it.

It's not really a contentious question. If I were sitting next to you at a coffee shop and posed the same question, how would you answer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
So, what arguments do you have that would favor illegal migration? I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm just not aware of any.

What statistics can you provide that show illegal migration benefits most American citizens, is good for the country as a whole and is equitable for all?

Can you present the educational statistics and scientific data that illegal migrant families and their children do not bring down educational test scores, do not burden the state tax revenue system that supports their free education, free meals, special classroom instruction and after school programs? Also, can you present data that affirmative action programs for migrant children is equitable for whites and non-favored immigrants and how this is considered just and fair? California would be a good place to start. Can you give me the data to review that supports your feelings where you said:

I personally don't feel that's the case...but I really don't want to debate the issue

I agree, debates are not always useful, but I would like to see the data you have that supports your findings.
I already went through this with him/her back on page two. This individual is talking in circles. These forums are a place for discussion. I'm sure he/she will reply with something like "Can you show me statistics that show that illegal migration is bad for the country?" They will respond with a question or a non-answer. No matter what is presented, it will not be satisfactory because they began this project with a biased agenda.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:34 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I live in California, work/ have worked in MANY school districts (Tustin Unified, Santa Ana Unified, Garden Grove, Chaffey Unified) and have never seen "not one light haired, blue eye anglo (sic.) or black (sic.) to be seen anywhere". Not saying it's impossible, but how are you basing this claim? Anything quantifiable? If not that's cool...
It isn't a claim. I am telling what I saw visually from the road I was on. It was a Cathedral City school. I glanced at all the kids getting out of school while waiting for a traffic light to change and I saw nothing but a sea of Latino kids. Now I am sure there were "some" white and black kids attending that school but they had to be way in the minority for me to not spot even one at the time.

In reply again to your initial question what possible positives can there be to anything with the word illegal attached to it and that is clearly in violation of our laws?
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It isn't a claim. I am telling what I saw visually from the road I was on. It was a Cathedral City school. I glanced at all the kids getting out of school while waiting for a traffic light to change and I saw nothing but a sea of Latino kids. Now I am sure there were "some" white and black kids attending that school but they had to be way in the minority for me to not spot even one at the time.

In reply again to your initial question what possible positives can there be to anything with the word illegal attached to it and that is clearly in violation of our laws?
All of the locations given(so far) are in San Bernardino County, with less than a 50 mile proximity of each other. San Bernardino and some locations around it are considered Sanctuary Cities.
Doesn't that say something?

Last edited by mkfarnam; 09-02-2010 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:15 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Why would you want us all to rethink, retype and rehash what has already been done for


nearly the exact same topic you have chosen? Peruse the thread, it's not that old.
It's not. I've read through most of the pages and didn't find a cohesive narrative with evidence. I found bits and fragments, but nobody proclaiming hey I believe that xyz and here are facts. I don't really understand the resistance.
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