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Old 09-06-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,956,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
One can reside in the US without being a citizen. Check around a little there are whole sections of laws just to deal with the hand full of people who are non citizen permanent residents..and they are not aliens. If you give up your US citizenship you don't have to leave.

and as the illegal alien children demonstrate it is quite easy to be a resident of the US without citizenship at least until you are 18.

Felons are deprived of a large variety of the benefits of citizenship. The right to bear arms. Various licenses. The right to hold certain jobs. Why would we give citizenship to the children of such a person? Bad bet if we are trying to clean up the citizenship state.

This is the illegal immigration forum - what you are proposing/discussing is not even related to illegal immigrants - please stay on the topic of the thread/forum.

Those here as legal residents of this country, while non citizens, DO have to have visas, whether they are work related or immigration based.
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:04 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,157,849 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Mitt Romney, he'd be deported
Mitt Romney was born here. Citizens cannot be deported.
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,157,849 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
One can reside in the US without being a citizen. Check around a little there are whole sections of laws just to deal with the hand full of people who are non citizen permanent residents..and they are not aliens. If you give up your US citizenship you don't have to leave.

and as the illegal alien children demonstrate it is quite easy to be a resident of the US without citizenship at least until you are 18.

Felons are deprived of a large variety of the benefits of citizenship. The right to bear arms. Various licenses. The right to hold certain jobs. Why would we give citizenship to the children of such a person? Bad bet if we are trying to clean up the citizenship state.
Why would we give citizenship to the children of a felon citizen you ask? If a citizen gives birth in our country their offspring automatically get citizenship, that's why. Since when do we hold the children of felon citizens accountable for their parent's crimes? Since when does it mean that their children will turn out bad?

Last edited by chicagonut; 09-06-2010 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,515,312 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Why would we give citizenship to the children of a felon citizen? If a citizen gives birth in our country their offspring automatically get citizenship, that's why. Since when do we hold the children of felon citizens accountable for their parent's crimes? Since when does it mean that their children will turn out bad?
Equity. We hold the children of illegal aliens responsible for the "crime" of their parents. Why would we not treat US children the same? Both were born here of criminal parent. So we treat them the same.
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:39 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,157,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Equity. We hold the children of illegal aliens responsible for the "crime" of their parents. Why would we not treat US children the same? Both were born here of criminal parent. So we treat them the same.
No, we don't hold children of illegal aliens responsible for the crimes of their parents. What are you talking about? Even children of illegal aliens born on our soil are granted instant citizenship. That however needs to be changed as the children need to be made citizens of their parent's homeland not ours. It has nothing to do with holding them responsible for their parent's crime. I don't call making them citizens of their parent's country a punishment but logic.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,515,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, we don't hold children of illegal aliens responsible for the crimes of their parents. What are you talking about? Even children of illegal aliens born on our soil are granted instant citizenship. That however needs to be changed as the children need to be made citizens of their parent's homeland not ours. It has nothing to do with holding them responsible for their parent's crime. I don't call making them citizens of their parent's country a punishment but logic.
Ohh now you are going to pass a US law that compels the Mexicans to make children born to their nationals in the US Mexican citizens? How you gonna do that? I would think the citizenship of children born outside of Mexico is up to the Mexicans - would you not agree?

I would agree that we get to decide on the citizenship of those born on our territory. I suggest we take all who meet some minimal standard...complete high school and demonstrate a reasonable command of English, US government and society. Those who don't meet reasonable standards don't get to be citizens. They can live here or we may give them an opportunity somewhere else.

Note that this is a vast opportunity for our society. Those who do not finish high school are a very bad economic bet. They cost the society dearly...so we simply provide them with a suitable stipend and send them off where the stipend will provide a reasonable living. What could be fairer?

Think of the benefits. Cut crime by 70 or 80%. Slash conventional welfare to almost nothing. Unload the schools of those unwilling to study. Depopulate the ghettos. How can you oppose this? Everything a true american patriot could want...
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:52 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,157,849 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Ohh now you are going to pass a US law that compels the Mexicans to make children born to their nationals in the US Mexican citizens? How you gonna do that? I would think the citizenship of children born outside of Mexico is up to the Mexicans - would you not agree?

I would agree that we get to decide on the citizenship of those born on our territory. I suggest we take all who meet some minimal standard...complete high school and demonstrate a reasonable command of English, US government and society. Those who don't meet reasonable standards don't get to be citizens. They can live here or we may give them an opportunity somewhere else.

Note that this is a vast opportunity for our society. Those who do not finish high school are a very bad economic bet. They cost the society dearly...so we simply provide them with a suitable stipend and send them off where the stipend will provide a reasonable living. What could be fairer?

Think of the benefits. Cut crime by 70 or 80%. Slash conventional welfare to almost nothing. Unload the schools of those unwilling to study. Depopulate the ghettos. How can you oppose this? Everything a true american patriot could want...
Mexico already recognizes their nationals born on our soil as Mexican citizens also. They offer dual citizenship.

I disagree with your suggested criteria for what designates a U.S. citizen and so does our Constitution. Your suggestions are so far out in left field that it boggles the mind. Denying birthright citizenship to children of citizens based on your criteria for later on and if they don't cut it they should be allowed to remain here under what status then? That would make them citizens of no country at all. No true American patriot would even suggest such lunacy.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,166,152 times
Reputation: 8204
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Mitt Romney was born here. Citizens cannot be deported.
His grandparents RENOUNCED their US Citizenship to go to Mexico and Practice Polygamy. They must have got it right because they returned with little George (Mitts father) in tow. Since they had RENOUNCED their Citizenship they were here illegally. It seems that makes Mitt the very people you want to strip of their citizenship
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:15 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,515,312 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Mexico already recognizes their nationals born on our soil as Mexican citizens also. They offer dual citizenship.

I disagree with your suggested criteria for what designates a U.S. citizen and so does our Constitution. Your suggestions are so far out in left field that it boggles the mind. Denying birthright citizenship to children of citizens based on your criteria for later on and if they don't cut it they should be allowed to remain here under what status then? That would make them citizens of no country at all. No true American patriot would even suggest such lunacy.
Sorry what the Mexicans chose to recognize today has nothing to do with what they may not chose to recognize tomorrow. YOu are trying to base US law on what another nation may or may not do. I would suggest that is a no no.

We are changing the Constitution. That is the whole purpose of this exercise.

But you are prepared to deny the children of Mexican nationals US citizenship which may leave them with none...so that can't bother you much. Don't tell me you want me to trust the Mexican government to "do the right thing".

There is no requirement that you be a citizen to be in the US. Entirely different things. There are a number of people who are not US citizens who have every right to reside here. There is no requirement that you be a citizen of some nation. In fact you have been quite willing to make children born in the US the citizen of none.

Speaking of lunatics...do you have the faintest idea how any of this actual works? And patriot? What on earth has this to do with patriot? We are talking about cutting loose the junk...the worthless. YOu think keeping them is patriotic? Do you believe McVeigh struck a blow for freedom or such?

Odd people on these lists sometimes.
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:05 PM
 
Location: square thing with a roof
894 posts, read 950,681 times
Reputation: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Mitt Romney, he'd be deported
You keep telling that same lie over and over and over again. Please don't let the facts get in your way.

George Romney (Mitt's Father) was born to American parents in the Mormon colonies located in Mexico in 1907. He returned to the US in late 1928 at the age of 21. He married Lenore LaFount in Salt Lake City in 1931. Lenore LaFount was born in Logan, Utah to American parents.

After George Romney and Lenore LaFount married in SLC, Utah in 1931 they had 4 children. Mitt Romney was child #4, born in 1947 in Detroit, Michigan.

So, if his Grandparents were legal Americans, and his parents were legal Americans, and he IS a legal Amercian -- how is it that this legal American would be deported to Mexico?

Romney's parents DID NOT RENOUNCE their US citizenship. STOP telling LIES! Please look up the FACTS!!!
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