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Old 09-08-2010, 05:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
First off they didn't need ownership papers, they came here between 10,000-30,000 years ago so yes they are native to this land., they made their life by living off the land, It was their's, but that didn't stop whites from commiting genocide against them and taking almost all their land.

second, 30% of Mexico is pure native american.
1. There were no people on the North American continent before 14,000 B.P. And when they did start migrating in, they did so in waves--by land and by sea. There is every possibility that those who migrated to modern day Mexico and South America never even set foot in modern day Canada or the U.S.

2. Please don't act as if there was some sort of international Native American peace contingency in the Americas before the arrival of the Europeans--all sitting around the campfire, holding hands and singing kumbyah. Far from it. Larger groups of people killed off or enslaved smaller groups of people--wars over resources and land were frequent and deadly.

3. Amerindians make up 10-14% of Mexico's population--no more, no less.*

*Pellicer, Dora; Bábara Cifuentes, and Carmen Herrera (2006). "Legislating diversity in twenty-first century Mexico". in Margarita G. Hidalgo (ed.). Mexican Indigenous Languages at the Dawn of the Twenty-first Century. Contributions to the Sociology of Language, no. 91. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter. pp. 127–168. ISBN 978-3-11-018597-3. OCLC 62090844.

Finally, get your head out of the past. Americans cannot continually be made to feel as if they must some how atone for the sins of their ancestors. I may be of European (and Native American) extraction, but I have never lived in Europe, nor do I intend to. I am native to this continent as is every other native born American. We are not immigrants, we are Americans.

Immigrant: a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
We have treaties with the descendants of those indians. They are American citizens and they have their soveriegn lands (and casinos I might add). This has nothing to do with Mexicans!
I bet some of these "native american" Mexicans have their eyes on that casino action...........too bad the NDNs don't respect any of their stupid claims to "blood ties" and "we're all Native Americans" chants.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: United States of America
128 posts, read 94,042 times
Reputation: 78
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Spain that conquered that territory and Mexico just got it after their independence?
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:40 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,476,387 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
1. There were no people on the North American continent before 14,000 B.P. And when they did start migrating in, they did so in waves--by land and by sea. There is every possibility that those who migrated to modern day Mexico and South America never even set foot in modern day Canada or the U.S.

2. Please don't act as if there was some sort of international Native American peace contingency in the Americas before the arrival of the Europeans--all sitting around the campfire, holding hands and singing kumbyah. Far from it. Larger groups of people killed off or enslaved smaller groups of people--wars over resources and land were frequent and deadly.

3. Amerindians make up 10-14% of Mexico's population--no more, no less.*

*Pellicer, Dora; Bábara Cifuentes, and Carmen Herrera (2006). "Legislating diversity in twenty-first century Mexico". in Margarita G. Hidalgo (ed.). Mexican Indigenous Languages at the Dawn of the Twenty-first Century. Contributions to the Sociology of Language, no. 91. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter. pp. 127–168. ISBN 978-3-11-018597-3. OCLC 62090844.

Finally, get your head out of the past. Americans cannot continually be made to feel as if they must some how atone for the sins of their ancestors. I may be of European (and Native American) extraction, but I have never lived in Europe, nor do I intend to. I am native to this continent as is every other native born American.
Cia world factbook
Mexico ethnic groups
60% mestizo (indian-white mix) 30% Indigenous 9% white and 1% other.

First off some estimates of their arrival came as far back as 30,000 years ago. You mean to tell me that none of those natives in Mexico ever stepped foot in the U.S., that's just wrong.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HilaryC View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Spain that conquered that territory and Mexico just got it after their independence?
Spain held it for 500 years, Mexico, just over 24 years.

Give Mexico back to the Spanish!!!!!
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Cia world factbook
Mexico ethnic groups
60% mestizo (indian-white mix) 30% Indigenous 9% white and 1% other.

First off some estimates of their arrival came as far back as 30,000 years ago. You mean to tell me that none of those natives in Mexico ever stepped foot in the U.S., that's just wrong.
I'm sure they did and I'm just as sure they got told where they could return to. Oh and btw, as you seem to not be very cognisant of salient facts - there WAS no "U.S." then...........(no Mexico either Sunny Jim)
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:53 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,476,387 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
I'm sure they did and I'm just as sure they got told where they could return to. Oh and btw, as you seem to not be very cognisant of salient facts - there WAS no "U.S." then...........(no Mexico either Sunny Jim)

Yeah I'm well aware there wasn't the U.S. then.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Cia world factbook
Mexico ethnic groups
60% mestizo (indian-white mix) 30% Indigenous 9% white and 1% other.

First off some estimates of their arrival came as far back as 30,000 years ago. You mean to tell me that none of those natives in Mexico ever stepped foot in the U.S., that's just wrong.
What factbook? Can you please use proper punctuation and capitalization so that I can tell what source it is that you're trying to cite here?

I used scholarly, RECENT sources which utilized cultural anthropological survey methodology to conduct a specialized investigation into the number of indigenous peoples in modern day Mexico. Please, feel free to hunt down the source. I've provided the citation. I hope you're up on your Spanish though, the majority of the journal is not translated into English.

Quote:
According to official statistics—as reported by the National Commission for the Development of Indigenous Peoples or CDI—Amerindians make up 10-14% of the country's population, even though only a little more than half of them (5.4% of total population) still speak an indigenous language and a tenth (1.2% of total population) do not speak Spanish. Official statistics of the CDI report that the states with the greatest percentage of Amerindian population or individuals of Amerindian origin are Yucatán (59%), Oaxaca (48%), Quintana Roo (39%), Chiapas (28%), Campeche (27%), Hidalgo (24%), Puebla (19%), Guerrero (17%), San Luis Potosí (15%) and Veracruz (15%). Oaxaca is the state with the greatest number of distinct indigenous peoples and languages in the country.
Your "some estimates" are wrong. The oldest site in the Americas lies within the islands of Tierra del Fuego. It has been radiocarbon dated at 14,200 +/- 200 years B.P. There is no, I repeat, NO evidence for human presence in the Americas before that time. Most archaeologists agree that a land migration from modern day Siberia to Tierra del Fuego would have taken the life times of several generations and would have left archaeological evidence of those people along the way. There is none. There is absolutely no evidence in the archaeological record to support a date of 30,000 B.P. and even more importantly, no scholarly consensus.

Furthermore, we now know that these people were capable of ocean travel in small vessels which would have mirrored the coastline of the continent. Ocean travel would have taken several months, obviously a much more practical use of time and resources.

That is not to say that later migrations did not happen internally from the modern day United States. However, the Sonoran Desert presented a substantial natural barrier to migration. Resourceful people would not have voluntarily headed off into the desert unless they were forced to do so by bigger, badder Inidians. Scarce edible plant material and faunal resources, as well as even scarcer water sources does not make for a hospitable trip to the interior of modern day Mexico.

Do not mess with the resident archaeologist, especially one whose father-in-law was perhaps the most knowledgable Mesoamerican archaeologist on the planet until his recent death.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:14 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,476,387 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
What factbook? Can you please use proper punctuation and capitalization so that I can tell what source it is that you're trying to quote here?

I used scholarly, RECENT sources which utilized cultural anthropological survey methodology to conduct a specialized investigation into the number of indigenous peoples in modern day Mexico. Please, feel free to hunt down the source. I've provided the citation. I hope you're up on your Spanish though, the majority of the book is not translated into English.



"Some estimates" are wrong. The oldest site in the Americas within the islands of Tierra del Fuego, has been radiocarbon dated at 14,200 +/- 200 years B.P. There is no, I repeat, NO evidence for human presence in the Americas before that time. Most archaeologists agree that a land migration from modern day Siberia to Tierra del Fuego would have taken the life times of several generations and would have left archaeological evidence of those people along the way. There is none. There is absolutely no evidence in the archaeological record to support a date of 30,000 B.P. and even more importantly, no scholarly consensus.

Furthermore, we now know that these people were capable of ocean travel in small vessels which would have mirrored the coastline of the continent. Ocean travel would have taken several months, obviously a much more practical use of time and resources.

That is not to say that later migrations did not happen internally from the modern day United States. However, the Sonoran Desert presented a substantial natural barrier to migration. Resourceful people would not have voluntarily headed off into the desert unless they were forced to do so by bigger, badder Inidians. Scarce edible plant material and faunal resources, as well as even scarcer water sources does not make for a hospitable trip to the interior of modern day Mexico.

Do not mess with the resident archaeologist, especially one whose father-in-law was perhaps the most knowledgable Mesoamerican archaeologist on the planet until his recent death.

The CIA world factbook, you can google it.

And there were Natives in the Sonora desert as well.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
Reputation: 3083
If you want to get some idea of the impact of illegal immigration on the black community try doing a search online for articles relating to same in Ebony magazine - the articles from the late 1970s are especially revealing.
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