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Old 09-08-2010, 07:21 PM
 
Location: square thing with a roof
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I posted a thread a little while back about a LSU study with regard to the problems that illegal immigration is creating in the black community.

LSU Study: Latino Immigration Creates Problems in Black Community
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
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Katherine Newman's book "No shame in my game" about the working inner city black poor also touches on this subject.

I'll check out your link - thanks geek
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
What factbook? Can you please use proper punctuation and capitalization so that I can tell what source it is that you're trying to cite here?

I used scholarly, RECENT sources which utilized cultural anthropological survey methodology to conduct a specialized investigation into the number of indigenous peoples in modern day Mexico. Please, feel free to hunt down the source. I've provided the citation. I hope you're up on your Spanish though, the majority of the journal is not translated into English.



Your "some estimates" are wrong. The oldest site in the Americas lies within the islands of Tierra del Fuego. It has been radiocarbon dated at 14,200 +/- 200 years B.P. There is no, I repeat, NO evidence for human presence in the Americas before that time. Most archaeologists agree that a land migration from modern day Siberia to Tierra del Fuego would have taken the life times of several generations and would have left archaeological evidence of those people along the way. There is none. There is absolutely no evidence in the archaeological record to support a date of 30,000 B.P. and even more importantly, no scholarly consensus.

Furthermore, we now know that these people were capable of ocean travel in small vessels which would have mirrored the coastline of the continent. Ocean travel would have taken several months, obviously a much more practical use of time and resources.

That is not to say that later migrations did not happen internally from the modern day United States. However, the Sonoran Desert presented a substantial natural barrier to migration. Resourceful people would not have voluntarily headed off into the desert unless they were forced to do so by bigger, badder Inidians. Scarce edible plant material and faunal resources, as well as even scarcer water sources does not make for a hospitable trip to the interior of modern day Mexico.

Do not mess with the resident archaeologist, especially one whose father-in-law was perhaps the most knowledgable Mesoamerican archaeologist on the planet until his recent death.
Evidence of even earlier human settlement of America.
http://http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm (broken link)
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,698,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
The CIA world factbook, you can google it.

And there were Natives in the Sonora desert as well.
Of course there were--AFTER the Last Glacial Maximum--the end of the Younger Dryas stadial which lasted approximately 1,300 years +/- 70 years, occuring roughly between 12,800 and 11,500 years ago.

Although the effects of the end of the Younger Dryas were more evident in Western Europe and Greenland, current scientific thought indicates that the effect of the Younger Dryas in western North America was somewhat less intense than in Europe; however, evidence of glacial re-advance indicates Younger Dryas cooling occurred in the northern United States, spurring a "mini ice age." Current archaeological scholarship hypothesizes that this was the beginning of the end for the Clovis culture and the mega-fauna of North America.

What does this have to do with people in the desert you ask? Well, I'll tell you. For several thousand years following the end of the Younger Dryas, the climate on this continent was wetter. More rain = more arable land = more resources. Yet the archaeological evidence indicates that when the climate began to change, i.e.; hotter and drier in the desert lands, those people--the Hohokam, got the hell out.

Before the Younger Dryas, the Sonoran was a true desert of few resources and a climate unsuitable for human beings--and this is the period during which much of the initial migration to the Americas was occuring.

Sorry about your old CIA resource though. It wouldn't be the first time that they were wrong--and they are in this case. Their statistics are out of date.

Next.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Of course there were--AFTER the Last Glacial Maximum--the end of the Younger Dryas stadial which lasted approximately 1,300 years +/- 70 years, occuring roughly between 12,800 and 11,500 years ago.

Although the effects of the end of the Younger Dryas were more evident in Western Europe and Greenland, current scientific thought indicates that the effect of the Younger Dryas in western North America was somewhat less intense than in Europe; however, evidence of glacial re-advance indicates Younger Dryas cooling occurred in the northern United States, spurring a "mini ice age." Current archaeological scholarship hypothesizes that this was the beginning of the end for the Clovis culture and the mega-fauna of North America.

What does this have to do with people in the desert you ask? Well, I'll tell you. For several thousand years following the end of the Younger Dryas, the climate on this continent was wetter. More rain = more arable land = more resources. Yet the archaeological evidence indicates that when the climate began to change, i.e.; hotter and drier in the desert lands, those people--the Hohokam, got the hell out.

Before the Younger Dryas, the Sonoran was a true desert of few resources and a climate unsuitable for human beings--and this is the period during which much of the initial migration to the Americas was occuring.

Sorry about your old CIA resource though. It wouldn't be the first time that they were wrong--and they are in this case. Their statistics are out of date.

Next.
The source is not wrong or outdated you have no evidence of this, most sources report this percentage. Oh yeah any Indigenous person in Mexico who speaks spanish and adopts mestizo culture can be considered a mestizo.
http://http://www.countriesquest.com/north_america/mexico/people/ethnic_groups.htm (broken link)
http://http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Americas/Mexico.html (broken link)

Last edited by adirondackguy123; 09-08-2010 at 07:57 PM..
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:14 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Evidence of even earlier human settlement of America.
http://http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm (broken link)
Your 2004 link has expired.

This is 2010.

Try to stay current.

Archaeologists do.

Science Daily is a source for topical *pseudoscience* and science articles. It features articles on a variety of topics including: computer science, nanotechnology, medicine, psychology, biology, geology, climate, space, physics, mathematics, chemistry, archeology, paleontology, and others.

It has been active since 1995. The articles are selected from news releases submitted by universities and other research institutions. The scientific credibility of the reporter is not assessed, nor reported in the subsequent article on sciencedaily.com.

Scholars in all fields agree that Science Daily provides true junk science for the gullible pseudo-intellectual.

*Pseudoscience*: an activity resembling science but based on fallacious assumptions. It is a methodology, belief, or practice that is claimed to be scientific, or that is made to appear to be scientific, but which does not adhere to an appropriate scientific methodology, lacks supporting evidence or plausibility, or otherwise lacks scientific status. Websters Dictionary

Your sources for demographics are just sources who are quoting the numbers of sources who are quoting the numbers of the original sources--not boots on the ground surveys of the indigenous people remaining in Mexico. When the CIA does a community by community anthropological ethnographic survey, we'll talk.

By the way, just because I speak Inuit and eat whale blubber does not qualify me as an Eskimo. Mestizo, by it's very definition--a person of mixed racial ancestry, especially mixed European and Native American ancestry--does not give "wiggle room" for Mestizo wannabees. You cannot pad the numbers in your favor simply to ensure your "rightness" in this debate.

Speaking of the debate, this thread is entitled "Must a Pro-Immigration Stance be Anti-Black." This conversation has veered way off course and as such, I am terminating my involvement in it.

If you want to continue to spew padded numbers and pseudoscience into the Forumsphere, you'll have to do it alone.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:25 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,479,609 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Your 2004 link has expired.

This is 2010.

Try to stay current.

Archaeologists do.

Science Daily is a source for topical *pseudoscience* and science articles. It features articles on a variety of topics including: computer science, nanotechnology, medicine, psychology, biology, geology, climate, space, physics, mathematics, chemistry, archeology, paleontology, and others.

It has been active since 1995. The articles are selected from news releases submitted by universities and other research institutions. The scientific credibility of the reporter is not assessed, nor reported in the subsequent article on sciencedaily.com.

Scholars in all fields agree that Science Daily provides true junk science for the gullible pseudo-intellectual.

*Pseudoscience*: an activity resembling science but based on fallacious assumptions. It is a methodology, belief, or practice that is claimed to be scientific, or that is made to appear to be scientific, but which does not adhere to an appropriate scientific methodology, lacks supporting evidence or plausibility, or otherwise lacks scientific status. Websters Dictionary

Your sources for demographics are just sources who are quoting the numbers of sources who are quoting the numbers of the original sources--not boots on the ground surveys of the indigenous people remaining in Mexico. When the CIA does a community by community anthropological ethnographic survey, we'll talk.

By the way, just because I speak Inuit and eat whale blubber does not qualify me as an Eskimo. Mestizo, by it's very definition--a person of mixed racial ancestry, especially mixed European and Native American ancestry--does not give "wiggle room" for Mestizo wannabees. You cannot pad the numbers in your favor simply to ensure your "rightness" in this debate.

Speaking of the debate, this thread is entitled "Must a Pro-Immigration Stance be Anti-Black." This conversation has veered way off course and as such, I am terminating my involvement in it.

If you want to continue to spew padded numbers and pseudoscience into the Forumsphere, you'll have to do it alone.

Do you think the percentage of the population changed that much since 2004 I think not, 30% of Mexico is Native american. Haven't spewed any padded numbers or pseudo science, I showed you correct percentages and a article talking about early human settlement in America.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,967,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Do you think the percentage of the population changed that much since 2004 I think not, 30% of Mexico is Native american. Haven't spewed any padded numbers or pseudo science, I showed you correct percentages and a article talking about early human settlement in America.
It would be nice if you actually addressed the topic of this thread and not just keep pushing your agenda.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,698,040 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Do you think the percentage of the population changed that much since 2004 I think not, 30% of Mexico is Native american. Haven't spewed any padded numbers or pseudo science, I showed you correct percentages and a article talking about early human settlement in America.
Yeah.

Last time.

No CREDIBLE scientist or researcher would ever dream of quoting Science Daily. It is a pseudoscience site. Do yourself a favor and read up on pseudoscience. It is not accepted by any person in scholarship. Do you believe everything you read without researching it thoroughly?

Additionally, the result of years of ethnographic research , the publication for which I provided citation, was published in 2006.

My 2006 trumps your 2004.

Game, set, match.

Done.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:41 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,479,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
It would be nice if you actually addressed the topic of this thread and not just keep pushing your agenda.


Why don't you say that to Kele to, we were both in that conversation.
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