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Old 09-06-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Bayou City
2,991 posts, read 4,469,773 times
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Lately I've noticed a tendency among immigration advocates to justify their stance with an indictment of other minorities, namely black people. The argument usually centers around the notion that illegal immigrants tend to have a better work ethic and tighter familial structure than those "welfare-dependent, broken-home" blacks. They are also quick to point out the prevalence of "black criminality" as a greater threat to public safety than crimes committed by illegals. And of course, we're all familiar with Vicente Fox's profound insight several years ago that illegal Mexicans are here to do the jobs "not even blacks will do."

So what exactly accounts for this tendency? I am aware of the anti-black bias element prevalent in the culture, manifested most starkly perhaps in the continued marginalization of populations of African descent in Mexico for instance. Does this cultural element make it easier for people like Fox to believe the way they do? Or is this simply a kind of "reverse divide-and-conquer" strategy (appealing to white conservatives who actually feel the same way about blacks) some illegal immigration advocates have decided to use to dilute the overwhelming white conservative opposition to illegal immigration?
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: square thing with a roof
894 posts, read 949,993 times
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I'm a white conservative and I don't believe that Blacks are more of a criminal element than illegals. In fact, I believe just the opposite. Illegal aliens are the biggest crime element in this country.

I have lots of black friends. In fact, my best friend of more than 30+ yrs is black.
My ex-husband was also half black.

I went blind going on 11 yrs ago now, and have never been afraid of being a crime victim with regard to black-on-white crime, and I haven't. I have however, been the victim of an illegal-on-white crime. I was robbed and raped at gunpoint by an illegal alien from mexico.

I know a lot of white conservatives, and none of them think the way you've outlined in your post. Most of the ones I know personally, all believe our number one threat is from the illegal alien population.

Perhaps the reason they think that way in Mexico, or illegals think that way here, is because they're under the misguided notion that this country is racially divided.

The exact opposite is true though. Most kids growing up in today's society have friends from all different races and cultures. They accept others for the human beings that they are.

The groups of people I notice, that to me, seem to always want to revert back to the social morays of the past, are older people (above the age of 50+) that don't want to let go of that past because the change is too great for them to accept. Not all mind you, but many.

Look at the progress we have made as a country ... we now have a black man as President. I'm not an Obama fan (I disagree with his policies). But, when he was elected, it brought tears to my eyes. I thought, what a great day this is that America has put aside her racial pettiness and elected a black man as the leader of the country. It was a proud moment in history for all of us, indeed.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Really?

Hmmm....I feel pretty stupid right now. I have completely missed this whole Black American/illegal immigrant conundrum of which you speak. Considering the frequency with which I contribute to this debate, one would think that something of this magnitude would not have escaped notice.

Always the race card in some shape, form, or fashion.

Americans of all colors face the negative consequences of illegal immigration.

Why would you now want to make it a Black/White thing as well?

Last edited by Kele; 09-06-2010 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by {geek} View Post
I'm a white conservative and I don't believe that Blacks are more of a criminal element than illegals. In fact, I believe just the opposite. Illegal aliens are the biggest crime element in this country.

I have lots of black friends. In fact, my best friend of more than 30+ yrs is black.
My ex-husband was also half black.

I went blind going on 11 yrs ago now, and have never been afraid of being a crime victim with regard to black-on-white crime, and I haven't. I have however, been the victim of an illegal-on-white crime. I was robbed and raped at gunpoint by an illegal alien from mexico.

I know a lot of white conservatives, and none of them think the way you've outlined in your post. Most of the ones I know personally, all believe our number one threat is from the illegal alien population.

Perhaps the reason they think that way in Mexico, or illegals think that way here, is because they're under the misguided notion that this country is racially divided.

The exact opposite is true though. Most kids growing up in today's society have friends from all different races and cultures. They accept others for the human beings that they are.

The groups of people I notice, that to me, seem to always want to revert back to the social morays of the past, are older people (above the age of 50+) that don't want to let go of that past because the change is too great for them to accept. Not all mind you, but many.

Look at the progress we have made as a country ... we now have a black man as President. I'm not an Obama fan (I disagree with his policies). But, when he was elected, it brought tears to my eyes. I thought, what a great day this is that America has put aside her racial pettiness and elected a black man as the leader of the country. It was a proud moment in history for all of us, indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Really?

Hmmm....I feel pretty stupid right now. I have completely missed this whole Black American/illegal immigrant conundrum of which you speak. Considering the frequency with which I contribute to this debate, one would think that something of this magnitude would not have escaped notice.

Always the race card in some shape, form, or fashion.

Americans of all colors face the negative consequences of illegal immigration.

Why would you now want to make it a Black/White thing as well?
Thank you, ladies.

I never thought I would witness the election and inauguration of a black man as POTUS. In fact, when discussed with other black citizens, the consensus has always been, “not in MY lifetime.” Actually, I didn’t believe it would ever happen.

When I saw the front page of the Post the day following Obama’s election, it was so incredibly overwhelming I sat in my car and cried. Frankly, I surprised myself. It was an emotional experience, not necessarily because he is a black man. Rather, as {geek} mentioned, it signified genuine progress in a country (my country) historically plagued by racial strife.

I do not believe most pro-illegals are trying to denigrate black folks to elevate illegals. That would be an exercise in futility. If anything, I have noticed a tendency for pro-illegals to try to tout the mythical black/brown alliance, and to compare the plight of illegals to that of black Americans during the Civil Rights Movement -- also futile endeavors. However, I do believe most illegals from Mexico are indoctrinated to believe they are superior to black Americans, and are thereby entitled to displace the black worker. Sadly, ethnocentric Hispanic advocacy groups reinforce that mindset.

Clearly, some would like to see a race war in this country, and thus, divide and conquer. Sorry racists, it won’t happen. I probably have as many close white friends as black. But then, I don’t consider them “white” friends, I simply think of them as friends.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:21 AM
 
686 posts, read 1,476,867 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSykes View Post
Lately I've noticed a tendency among immigration advocates to justify their stance with an indictment of other minorities, namely black people. The argument usually centers around the notion that illegal immigrants tend to have a better work ethic and tighter familial structure than those "welfare-dependent, broken-home" blacks. They are also quick to point out the prevalence of "black criminality" as a greater threat to public safety than crimes committed by illegals. And of course, we're all familiar with Vicente Fox's profound insight several years ago that illegal Mexicans are here to do the jobs "not even blacks will do."

So what exactly accounts for this tendency? I am aware of the anti-black bias element prevalent in the culture, manifested most starkly perhaps in the continued marginalization of populations of African descent in Mexico for instance. Does this cultural element make it easier for people like Fox to believe the way they do? Or is this simply a kind of "reverse divide-and-conquer" strategy (appealing to white conservatives who actually feel the same way about blacks) some illegal immigration advocates have decided to use to dilute the overwhelming white conservative opposition to illegal immigration?

There really isn't a marginlization of blacks in mexico because there are very few blacks in Mexico, I think they only make up about 0.1% of the country.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:31 AM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,117,815 times
Reputation: 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
There really isn't a marginlization of blacks in mexico because there are very few blacks in Mexico, I think they only make up about 0.1% of the country.
Actually they are marginalized in Mexico.

Quote:
The notion of race in Mexico is frustratingly complex. This is a country where many are proud to claim African blood, yet discriminate against their darker countrymen. Black Mexicans complain that such bigotry makes it especially hard for them to find work.
MEXICO'S HIDDEN BLACKS | More Intelligent Life
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:38 AM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,117,815 times
Reputation: 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSykes View Post
Lately I've noticed a tendency among immigration advocates to justify their stance with an indictment of other minorities, namely black people. The argument usually centers around the notion that illegal immigrants tend to have a better work ethic and tighter familial structure than those "welfare-dependent, broken-home" blacks. They are also quick to point out the prevalence of "black criminality" as a greater threat to public safety than crimes committed by illegals. And of course, we're all familiar with Vicente Fox's profound insight several years ago that illegal Mexicans are here to do the jobs "not even blacks will do."

So what exactly accounts for this tendency? I am aware of the anti-black bias element prevalent in the culture, manifested most starkly perhaps in the continued marginalization of populations of African descent in Mexico for instance. Does this cultural element make it easier for people like Fox to believe the way they do? Or is this simply a kind of "reverse divide-and-conquer" strategy (appealing to white conservatives who actually feel the same way about blacks) some illegal immigration advocates have decided to use to dilute the overwhelming white conservative opposition to illegal immigration?
What I find most interesting is how some in the black community have aligned their struggle (primarily with regard to discrimination) with the illegal immigrant. I have seen many blacks marching in support of illegals and also who are against SB1070 and I often wonder why knowing about how they discriminate against black people in Mexico and in other Latin cultures in central and south America.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:49 AM
 
686 posts, read 1,476,867 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
Actually they are marginalized in Mexico.



MEXICO'S HIDDEN BLACKS | More Intelligent Life
Well there still a very tiny part of the population, mean while 90% of Mexico is either mestizo (indian and white) or native american.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:52 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
What I find most interesting is how some in the black community have aligned their struggle (primarily with regard to discrimination) with the illegal immigrant. I have seen many blacks marching in support of illegals and also who are against SB1070 and I often wonder why knowing about how they discriminate against black people in Mexico and in other Latin cultures in central and south America.
Some do because they still resent whitey for the racism of the past. Aligning themselves with illegal aliens who are also of an ethnic minority group they feel it is payback to whitey for times past. With the influx of illegal aliens who are mostly from Mexico they know that the anglo-white race in this country will be diluted and they think that is a good thing. If that ever happens they will regret it because that is when these Mestizos will no longer have any use for them and they will see what the new racism looks like and they will be the brunt of it.

I don't think most blacks are aligning themselves with illegal aliens. Benicar and SoEdible are good examples of that. It is mostly the black race baiter leaders like Jackson and Al Sharpton that are doing it. Most blacks resent the comparison of illegal aliens to the civil rights movement and rightly so.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,117,815 times
Reputation: 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Some do because they still resent whitey for the racism of the past. Aligning themselves with illegal aliens who are also of an ethnic minority group they feel it is payback to whitey for times past. With the influx of illegal aliens who are mostly from Mexico they know that the anglo-white race in this country will be diluted and they think that is a good thing. If that ever happens they will regret it because that is when these Mestizos will no longer have any use for them and they will see what the new racism looks like and they will be the brunt of it.

I don't think most blacks are aligning themselves with illegal aliens. Benicar and SoEdible are good examples of that. It is mostly the black race baiter leaders like Jackson and Al Sharpton that are doing it. Most blacks resent the comparison of illegal aliens to the civil rights movement and rightly so.
Yes I have seen Sharpton do this. In Los Angeles blacks who lived in neighborhoods for years are being moved out of them by illegals, competing for work and places to live. It's shameful.
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